Things that make you scratch your head

[Nolano]

I'm doing the former right now.... I basically made my placement off my defense, with almost no attacking. I want to be able to actually make attacks now and then.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by arc

I actually got to be scorekeeper when a sabre fencer managed to do both of these ... he was upset at losing the bout, and made a forceful "salute" that culminated in him flinging his weapon backwards so hard that it came out of his hand & unplugged the body cord, flying back to ricochet off a wall & land back in front of him, followed by punting the mask the length of the gym ...

Uhhh....black card anyone???

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by dramamine

- People in foil/sabre acknowledging extremely obvious or one light hits. Usually the person doing this is a jerk. Thanks, rocket scientist, I think the judge can see the box.

For me it's force of habit. I try not to do it, but an occasional acknowledgement escapes me in competition.

In practice, where I spend a lot more time fencing, sometimes the referee is a novice fencer who very well may NOT be able to call even an obvious touch. Acknowledging is a way to keep things fair and moving along without acrimony from the other fencer. And it can become habitual.

There are also those who do it in an attempt to create an impression of themselves as a fair individual in the eyes of the referee...so that the ref may be more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt in a contested action. For these people, a one-lighter is actually best. You risk nothing.

The ones who puzzle me are the ones who scream and crouch and pump their fists victoriously after a touch, and then acknowledge after the ref makes the call against them...

[dramamine]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

For me it's force of habit. I try not to do it, but an occasional acknowledgement escapes me in competition.

In practice, where I spend a lot more time fencing, sometimes the referee is a novice fencer who very well may NOT be able to call even an obvious touch. Acknowledging is a way to keep things fair and moving along without acrimony from the other fencer. And it can become habitual.

There are also those who do it in an attempt to create an impression of themselves as a fair individual in the eyes of the referee...so that the ref may be more inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt in a contested action. For these people, a one-lighter is actually best. You risk nothing.

The ones who puzzle me are the ones who scream and crouch and pump their fists victoriously after a touch, and then acknowledge after the ref makes the call against them...




- Fencers/coaches not wearing masks during a full speed, full out lesson. WTF can possibly be gained from doing this? How stupid would you feel if something actually went wrong? Just, why?

- Epee judges who call the action. "Attack no, counter attack", "Parry riposte", etc. I saw a ref who is active on the national circuit and refs lots of high level bouts doing this on the weekend. What's the point? I guess it's not particularly harmful, but it's kind of abrasive, and just unnecessary.

Whaddya got?

[/quote]

After reading through the responses, I realize that I should have been more descriptive in regards to the type of situation that frustrates me. If it looks like someone is doing it out of habit, or really trying to help the referee, or complimenting the other fencer on his/her action, it doesn't bother me at all. I think that someone put it best earlier in the thread, though, that sometimes it's as if the acknowledgement is saying "my mistake". Generally it's obvious from the fencer's body language and overall disposition whether they're being arrogant or courteous.

Sometimes if an action is really close I am guilty of doing what you're describing though. For example, if someone starts a really slow attack and I do a strong direct lunge into it right away, my initial reaction might be to let out a yell because it "feels" like mine, but as soon as the judge makes the call I can rationalize and I might acknowledge the hit in a sort of apologetic way towards the referee (usually I just say sorry, I'm not big on the gestural acknowledgements).

[sabreur]

I acknowledge one-lighters.

Especially when you have a ref that insists on explaining the action from the beginning of the phrase....

Although I tell my fencers never to acknowledge a touch until the ref awards it, and to always LISTEN to the ref's parsing of the touch--it can give you valuable clues about what he saw, even if it was one-light.

[Allen Evans]

I've seen a lot of fencers acknowlege one light touches because they aren't looking at the box after every action.

AE

[Einin]

Mmm, the ancient art of box watching...

Once I was fencing a friend of mine who fleched at me with his head down. The result was that our heads (masks) collided: mine, which is an FIE standard mask, was fine, but he was using a club mask that now has a nice big dent in it...

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Einin

Mmm, the ancient art of box watching...

Once I was fencing a friend of mine who fleched at me with his head down. The result was that our heads (masks) collided: mine, which is an FIE standard mask, was fine, but he was using a club mask that now has a nice big dent in it...

Ole!!!!

[uhl-mann]

Originally Posted by Einin

Mmm, the ancient art of box watching...

Once I was fencing a friend of mine who fleched at me with his head down. The result was that our heads (masks) collided: mine, which is an FIE standard mask, was fine, but he was using a club mask that now has a nice big dent in it...

My mask had a point sized dent in it. It was a Leon Paul FIE mask. But he also killed my ribs and everywhere else. He was angry, I won the tournament.

[cyranorocks]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

I never understood why fencers would go on one knee for weights. Do you WANT me to drop it on your head?

I am 6'7" tall, and hate to see the wee refs tippy toe to weight and shim my weapon.

[Blakeian]

It makes the weapon more stable and can allow something that is borderline to pass.

[HDG]

Originally Posted by Blakeian

It makes the weapon more stable and can allow something that is borderline to pass.

Kneeling?

[freerider258]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

The ones who puzzle me are the ones who scream and crouch and pump their fists victoriously after a touch, and then acknowledge after the ref makes the call against them...

Yes, I have done this first time fencing foil (Normally fence epee) during a meet. I really don't know why I screamed in the first place since I don't know much about RoW. I felt pretty stupid afterwards.

Originally Posted by Blakeian

It makes the weapon more stable and can allow something that is borderline to pass.

I don't think kneeling would help. The ref is holding your weapon anyways, it's not like your kneeling with create a better base and somehow be the factor that passes your weapon...

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by freerider258

I don't think kneeling would help. The ref is holding your weapon anyways, it's not like your kneeling with create a better base and somehow be the factor that passes your weapon...

It's not the kneeling per se, that helps a borderline weapon pass. It's the praying that goes along with it....

--Philistine

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I kneel so they cant see me fiddle with the button in my bell guard.

[freerider258]

Originally Posted by Philistine

It's not the kneeling per se, that helps a borderline weapon pass. It's the praying that goes along with it....

--Philistine

You just gave kneeling a whole new meaning. Mad rep to you!

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by freerider258

You just gave kneeling a whole new meaning. Mad rep to you!

It should be noted that he was not the first to pray while kneeling. In fact, I saw a national team member kneeling and praying one Sunday at least 15 years ago. I've even heard that non-fencers do it from time to time.

[lefty_monster]

Originally Posted by tbryan

It should be noted that he was not the first to pray while kneeling. In fact, I saw a national team member kneeling and praying one Sunday at least 15 years ago. I've even heard that non-fencers do it from time to time.

And non-religious fencers sometimes pray on saturday or sunday. Depending on the situation...

[freerider258]

Originally Posted by tbryan

It should be noted that he was not the first to pray while kneeling. In fact, I saw a national team member kneeling and praying one Sunday at least 15 years ago. I've even heard that non-fencers do it from time to time.

Err, I think you missunderstood me. I was amused by the fact that the fencers who kneel when ref's test weight and shims might be praying, not just getting down low so the ref can test their weapon easier. Yes, many people pray kneeling, it goes back thousands of years.

I'm not saying that it's a first time for fencers to pray, I just never thought that my be a theoretical reason why they might be doing so.

I do pray many times a day, so it's not new to me.

[freerider258]

Just to add to this thread

I find it funny when my opponent forgets to plug in their bodycord into their weapon during a meet and wonder why they aren't scoring any touches, then finally realize it when it's 3-0.