USFA Election 2008 Debate Question #2: Qualification Concerns about Candidates

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by alexsmom

The reality is the current slate was handpicked. This same group of people have run/will run the USFA;

This is what I don't quite understand. Why do you think that the people they were handpicked by are the same people who have in the past been running the USFA?

The nominating committee was:

Michael Aufrichtig (Metropolitan Section)
Dan Berke (Pacific Northwest Section)
Aaron Clements (Rocky Mountain Section)
Marcella Denton (Great Lakes Section)
Alan Kuver (North Atlantic Section)
Nicole Lechner (Athlete Representative)
Ivan Lee (Athlete Representative)
Evan Ranes (Pacific Coast Section)
Laurence ("Laurie") Schiller (Midwest Section)
David Sierra (Southwest Section)
Erin Smart (Athlete Representative)
Jeff Snider (Southeast Section)
Delia Turner (Mid-Atlantic Section)

I only know one of them personally, but she was certainly not a person running the USFA, or any any way affiliated with them.

Please, if you are going to be vulgar, don't respond to me. If we cannot have a polite exchange of ideas, I don't want to participate. Some fencers seem to loser their politeness and manners under the guise of a username and the annonimity (sp) provided by the internet.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be vulgar--just using the terminology that was already out there (substiting telkanuro's orignal "ass" for your use of "arse" which, I guess you could consider "vulgar" but seems a bit of a stretch to me--but if so, I apologize).

I just found your bashing of one slate in the same breath as complaining about other bashing the other slate to be a bit ... odd.

--Philistine

[Peach]

Originally Posted by alexsmom

The reality is the current slate was handpicked. This same group of people have run/will run the USFA; why would anything change? I am not slamming anyone. I just think something needs to be done before things go terribly awry.

That is a misperception, and one which has repeatedly been corrected in f.net discussions. The nominated slate was not "handpicked" in any way except that it was selected after a great deal of discussion by an independently elected (and very independent-minded) committee, a committee that from what I've heard of previous attempts did a more conscientious job of reviewing the various self-nominated candidates (including Dr. Hurley, but not including her running mates because they did not come forward during the nomination process) than anyone ever did before. It was a committee which was not guided in any way by USFA insiders.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by Philistine

I only know one of them personally, but she was certainly not a person running the USFA, or any any way affiliated with them.

Dern right. Though I'm affiliated with the USFA in the sense that all of us are--I'm a member & I pays my dues.

You beat me to it

[FencingKitten]

Originally Posted by alexsmom

The reality is the current slate was handpicked. This same group of people have run/will run the USFA; why would anything change? I am not slamming anyone. I just think something needs to be done before things go terribly awry.

Please, if you are going to be vulgar, don't respond to me. If we cannot have a polite exchange of ideas, I don't want to participate. Some fencers seem to lose their politeness and manners under the guise of a username and the annonimity (sp) provided by the internet.

The current slate was handpicked, it is true. By individuals who were (at least in theory) indirectly elected by the membership - see these theoretical "Bylaws" for details, or review the many reports and posts by the Chair who is probably getting damn tired of hvaing to explain things.

This handpicked group of candidates, and I know 5/6 personally and the 6th on a visual, are not "the old guard" and have made it pretty clear that they do not intend to do things "in the usual way." They have instead been the people keeping things going at the national level under the "old ways" while working toward change, and the same cannot be said of their competition. You may not believe that they will, and in that case don't vote for them, but neither will you slander them unopposed, because they are good people who I believe will be good for the USFA.

Yes, the USFA is in debt, and yes, a coach felt the need to go to court to get paid. What you're obviously overlooking is that the "handpicked" individuals had nothing to do with creating those situations - they weren't in charge of paying the coaches, nor were they responsible for budget oversight. The person whose purview that will be has instead worked for years to bring about the changes we're beginning to see - budget oversight and control.

I'd say that you are the one speaking to issues you are not familiar with, and while I will honor your request not to be vulgar, it doesn't make you less wrong.

[tchwojko]

Originally Posted by alexsmom

The reality is the current slate was handpicked.

Let's see, a group of people chosen by a committee made of lots of division representatives (NOT the current administrators) who put a lot of thought and care into finding people with experience, knowledge and credentials.

OR

A self-proclaimed set of candidates who make bold promises, but are short on details when pressed, and chose their slate positions by their position as fencers rather than qualifications for the respective jobs.

I suggest you do some research into who the nominating committee is, what their relationship to the current system is, and the motivations of all of the candidates. One slate is pro-information. The other wants to change first, ask questions later. Read ALL the threads here before deciding.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by alexsmom

I think we should all take the high road; stop slamming people you probably don't even know.

Would it be different if I pointed out I know all of them except Soren?

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by alexsmom

Some fencers seem to lose their politeness and manners under the guise of a username and the annonimity (sp) provided by the internet.

Anonymity? I know exactly who Telkanuru is (and I'm FAR from alone in that: he doesn't tend to care about anonymity.) you, on the other hand, are quite anonymous to me.

You are who exactly and why should I respect your knowledge of the situation?

-m

[Swordmaster]

Originally Posted by alexsmom

The reality is the current slate was handpicked. This same group of people have run/will run the USFA; why would anything change? I am not slamming anyone. I just think something needs to be done before things go terribly awry....

Of course they were picked, that is what a nominating committee does...Look at all of the possible options and come up with the BEST slate of candidates.
Something went terribly wrong in the last quad, as evidenced by a recall being called for by some of the same people you are "not slamming". The USFA is over $1,000,000 in debt. The treasurer from the last quad essentially quit in the first month but was not replace by the president. The PAID employees were pretty much given free rein. If you notice two of them are "moving on".

The fact is both slates are for change. Some of the candidates from the NC slate were on the board last quad, but "one vote don't make no change". It takes a caucus of concerned, intelligent, careful people to effect such a change as is needed in the USFA. If you read the posts and positions of the NC candidates you will see that these are just the people necessary to put into place the changes that are needed without "throwing out the baby with the bath water."

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

Anonymity? I know exactly who Telkanuru is (and I'm FAR from alone in that: he doesn't tend to care about anonymity.) you, on the other hand, are quite anonymous to me.

You are who exactly and why should I respect your knowledge of the situation?
-m

The in-crowd knows all and uses it for control. I've seen it happen in other organizations. It's not even necessarily because this is the information age. It's been stock and trade for shysters and politicians down through the ages.
But I don't know who Telkanuru is. Why don't you perform a proper introduction? Who he is and his background.

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster

The fact is both slates are for change. Some of the candidates from the NC slate were on the board last quad, but "one vote don't make no change". It takes a caucus of concerned, intelligent, careful people to effect such a change as is needed in the USFA. If you read the posts and positions of the NC candidates you will see that these are just the people necessary to put into place the changes that are needed without "throwing out the baby with the bath water."

But the question comes up as why wait till now when the situation has gotten so close to being a disaster? I am willing to believe both slates want some change. But as you point out several of the NomCom slate have either been on the board this past quadrennial and all are very closely associated. Did they take a pro position on the recall of Nancy Anderson? My recollection is that there was no support for that action from the Board. If they were committed to change before why hasn't that been made public? But if the only way they will act is as a collective then that is pretty close to the current "paralysis by analysis" that seems to have been such a road block against use of on-line NAC/SN registration etc.

So do we trust the people who were a part of or close to the previous administration or do we look for fresh talent?

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

Anonymity? I know exactly who Telkanuru is (and I'm FAR from alone in that: he doesn't tend to care about anonymity.) you, on the other hand, are quite anonymous to me.

And if you *don't* know who I am, my last name is Grigoli, I'm 22 years of age, I'm a B06 in epee, have recently returned from a 2 yr hiatus, and fence at Prise de Fer in the New England Division. I live just outside of Boston, MA. I have been an active poster on this forum for 4 years. I've actually read the platforms of both candidates.

You, on the other hand are talking, out of your ass, because you're dumb enough to assert truth without even bothering to back it up.

Oh, and don't blame the internet. I'm like this in person, too.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Oh, and don't blame the internet. I'm like this in person, too.

I can vouch for that.

It should be known that Mr. Grigoli is a highly intelligent person with a great aptitude for analysis and critical thought. He doesn't let others form his opinions for him. Just something I felt should be mentioned as these two sentences do not describe a majority of our posters.

-w

[schlager7]

Originally Posted by jjefferies

But I don't know who Telkanuru is. Why don't you perform a proper introduction? Who he is and his background.

Just a thought, but...
You could introduce yourself to him and ask him yourself who he is.

Most of the people around US Fencing would not know my real name if they saw it. It does not mean I am hiding anything. Most of the fencers in my division/section go who tend to go on these fora do know who I am.

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by DJ Apostrophe

I can vouch for that.

It should be known that Mr. Grigoli is a highly intelligent person with a great aptitude for analysis and critical thought. He doesn't let others form his opinions for him. Just something I felt should be mentioned as these two sentences do not describe a majority of our posters.

-w

Stop it. I'm blushing.

I also have a terrible aptitude for finishing college

[KatyFencing]

I know everyone has said I am hung up on one tournament several years ago. It is because it has happened quited a few times as a direct result of policy implemented in the Southwest Section of the US during the time when Jerry was the USFA Rep. This is a quote from a blog by Schlager during the last week which outlines what happens when you start limiting fencing tournaments in a region for any reason. I would suspect overall USFA membership in the Gulf Coast Division is down, despite the fact that my club has grown from 10+ to over 130 - 150+ in the last three years.

http://campechesteel.proboards15.com...ay&thread=2053

This was posted by Schlager7, who also posts here. This has happened many times the last several years. It limits USFA fencing in the division. Is this a policy that is supported by the candidates? I get frustrated when I am told I can't fence in a tournament or hold a tournament when I need no outside resources and the USFA is begging for members. Tomorrow I will hold a private practice that will be an A1/A2, but many of the participants may not be USFA members yet. It is is up to the USFA to give them reason to join.

Schlager7

"This is where my frustration kicks in.

Some folks feel it is too hard to get tournament dates. I submit that the problem is quite the opposite. Plenty of tournament dates were granted and too few actually USED.

Two cases in point:

1.) In two weekends, the Academy of Fencing is scheduled to hold a tournament (7-8 June). There is nothing on FRED. The division calendar for that weekend reads only,

Jun. 7-8 (anticipated open/youth/veteran/wheelchair tournament) Academy of Fencing

The SW Section calendar basically repeats this message.


2.) For the weekend of June 21-22, Young Elites was granted a tournament. Some may recall they also had one slated for a weekend a few months ago. That tournament never materialized. This upcoming tournament no longer even appears on the Division calendar so it seems safe to presume it is defunct.

In theory, another club should be able to take over that date but there is now less than a month before the date in question."

[KatyFencing]

As a quick update, both the Academy of Fencing and Young Elites dates are controlled by the division chair. Basically weekends are reserved and not used so competing clubs can't hold tournaments. What policies have been forwarded by the nominees to prevent this, (and it is happening in other divisions).

This is ours. "Set up a committee consisting of one person from each section to allow the USFA national office to sanction tournaments by petition if the local division does not have an event scheduled that conflicts that day. The representative from that section would abstain in the vote, and it would be ruled by majority. The petition for date must take place at least one month before the scheduled date, and the committee must approve/disapprove by three weeks before the date."

[tchwojko]

My two sons are arguing some over a petty slight one did to another, and over who started what.

Me: "Both of you, stop arguing. It's over. And you both have homework to do." The one quicker on the uptake sits quietly. The other starts telling me about how he was wronged, and should be allowed to continue.

Me: "Now you're arguing with me. Stop it and get to work."
Son: "No I'm not!"
Me: "Now you're arguing about arguing, and still not doing your homework."
Son: "No I'm..."...lightbulb..."argh!" and he gets down to business.

My other son, who already got his homework out, and started work on it, was laughing so hard he almost fell out of his chair.