USFA Election 2008 Debate Question #2: Qualification Concerns about Candidates

[whtouche]

I have to say, in my personal view, that your logic for choosing your candidates seems a little ridiculous. Sharol Pestotnik is a veteran fencer, so she's in. Goosens is in because he's a referee. Soren Thompson is in because he's a good fencer. Skopic is in because he's a coach.

You basically prioritized direct representation over qualifications, and it shows. Do you really think that you needed someone from each specific category in order for the leadership of the USFA to be "representative" ? Do you that much not trust yourself to be able to accurately represent the needs of demographics to which you do not belong? And please tell me you were joking when you said:

If it had been possible, I would have strongly considered appointing a confident 14-year old fencer to the Exec Committee (because they constitute over half of the membership base).

Again, I don't mean to pile on here, but at this point observing the facts is going to seem like piling on. You've said multiple times in the past that you don't view the credentials of any candidate for treasurer to be important, because most of their duties will be taken care of by your new CFO position (regardless of unanswered questions on how to pay for it..)
That, to me, seems like an admission that Ms. Pestotnik lacks proper credentials to be considered for the job, and at the very least it seems clear Mr. Dilworth is far more qualified. As for what we've learned, it's that Ms. Pestotnik has not formal financial education (did she ever go to college?) and an assessment from someone who used to have frequent contact with her (Mo) who tells us she has "no credentials", and that she was under the impression the business Ms. Pestotnik is purported to have run was infact run by her husband.

[Philistine]

Originally Posted by T

{snip} If it had been possible, I would have strongly considered appointing a confident 14-year old fencer to the Exec Committee (because they constitute over half of the membership base).
{snip}

Why isn't it possible?

Your whole explanation seems to conflate membership on the Executive Committee with the officers. If you were elected President, pursuant to the bylaws--you would get to choose additional people to be on the executive committe. Also, and relevant to your explantion--the treasurer (unlike the other officers) is not automatically a member of the Executive Committee.

WRT to the 14 year-old--I don't see on a quick run-through of the bylaws that there is an age requirement on directors or members of the Executive Committee (officers must be voting member, and so 18).

In short, I don't understand why the issue of representation on the executive committee should equate to that same representation in officers.


--Philistine

[T]

Perhaps you are correct but as I read the bylaws Article 11, page 4, section 2it states "Only voting members may hold office in the USFA". This is under the section of Officers but it states "may hold office". I guess the question is whether a director is 'holding an office' (as opposed to being an officer)?

You are right about the treasurer not necessarily being part of the Exec Committee. If elected President, the treasurer would be placed on the Exec Committee.

[mdstasinos]

Originally Posted by T

Perhaps you are correct but as I read the bylaws Article 11, page 4, section 2it states "Only voting members may hold office in the USFA". This is under the section of Officers but it states "may hold office". I guess the question is whether a director is 'holding an office' (as opposed to being an officer)?

You are right about the treasurer not necessarily being part of the Exec Committee. If elected President, the treasurer would be placed on the Exec Committee.

If you were to check the past administrations you would see that the Treasurer has in recent history, at least the past 4 administrations, has been a voting member of the EC. This would be no different in application with USFA Nominees slate.
Mark Stasinos
http://www/usfanominees.com

[T]

Originally Posted by whtouche

You've said multiple times in the past that you don't view the credentials of any candidate for treasurer to be important, because most of their duties will be taken care of by your new CFO position (regardless of unanswered questions on how to pay for it..)

I have talked about paying for this and other positions several times in this discussion board and it is posted to our website here. And the salary structures for both slates in terms of the front office is similar.

an assessment from someone who used to have frequent contact with her (Mo) who tells us she has "no credentials", and that she was under the impression the business Ms. Pestotnik is purported to have run was infact run by her husband.

First of all, you make the assumption that what Mo states is accurate. I question the validity of a statement from someone that knew Sharol for a very brief time in the context of a fencing salle has much knowledge of who ran Sharol's and her husband's business then or who is managing her real estate partnerships now.

Repeatedly, I have stated that I believe Sharol has the experience needed to be an effective treasurer. I won't argue that her experience is different than Greg's and Greg has more formal education but that doesn't necessarily mean that Sharol could not be an effective treasurer.

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by T

The current President has spent most of her time trying to get along with everyone and not trying to make waves. The result of this has been a passive president that has effectively been marginalized by strong personalities that surround her that have their own power agendas.

I don't think we'll find anybody on either side defending the efficacy of the current administration...

we have not had many positive initiatives move forward with much success (one notable exception is the RYC program).

Which Ro Sobalvarro was a key supporter of.

As I set out to determine the skills that I felt would be necessary to make required changes and to be inclusive, the first thing I did was to establish the category of members that should be represented. These are: fencers, referees, parents, veterans, coaches.

Representation is nice/important... Not as important as qualifications...

If it had been possible, I would have strongly considered appointing a confident 14-year old fencer to the Exec Committee (because they constitute over half of the membership base).

This shows a TREMENDOUS lack of judgment.

Of course, all of us are fencers so that category wasn’t hard to fill. My experiences have been numerous – most recently as a parent that has experienced fencing at all levels --from the RYC level to NAC and international level. I have also had a somewhat successful fencing career myself as a junior and later as a veteran. But most important is my background as a tenured professor in business management and running a successful and growing academic division at a state university. My overall knowledge of the sport, understanding of organizations, and management experience, provide for an excellent combination to be president.

I agree that MOST IMPORTANT is your experience outside of fencing in this case. It, far more than your experience as a fencer, coach, and parent, is what could be considered qualifications to be president.

For the ‘fencer’ category, I wanted to find someone who had experienced the challenges of youth/junior fencing as well as collegiate and elite fencing. With 20% of our budget coming from the USOC, I wanted someone who could advocate at an elite level without being obliged to the Athlete Advisory Group in terms of their agendas. Soren Thompson was a natural fit with his international experience, experience running summer camps, collegiate team captain, and an advisory role with the NYAC.

NONE of this qualifies him to be VP. His bio reads similarly to the first half of yours... the corresponding part that's missing is the section that in your bio began "But most important..." Where are his qualifications? "He's a good fencer" is a qualification to be an athlete rep, not a VP of the organization.

Are you sure there's not some more personal connection between you (or a member of your family) and Soren that might have led you to invite him to run?

The next role that I felt was important was the role of the club coach. I felt this coach needed to have a good grassroots program and have political experience at the divisional level. August Skopik fit this category quite well. One of the biggest strengths about August is his extensive marketing background and his success at working with the Olympic Festival and the NCAA championships that were held in Houston.

Skopik appears to, again, have some relevant experience, so he's not an outlandish choice like Soren. My concern with him is the issues he's had in the Gulf Coast Division. I don't know all the details of it, so I'm certainly not making any accusations, but in my experience, rarely are people with that many issues in their division without some blame (usually in such situations there's plenty to go around). It doesn't bode well for his ability to work well with others and compromise.

I think at the very least the situation (and his role in it) needs to be clarified before I'd even consider voting for him.

The next category that I felt was important was referees and just as important was experience and contacts with the European fencing community. Bruno Goossens fits this category quite well. He has been a domestic and international referee, speaks fluent French, has many fencing contacts at the international level, and has also been a successful fencer.

Emphasis mine. So, does this imply that Bruno will be taking point on international relations?

The final role to fill was treasurer. I was looking for an active veteran fencer as I felt it was important to have a member on the Exec Committee that represented a third of the membership rolls. While Sharol does not have a formal financial background, she has enough knowledge about finances to be effective. From co-running her $5million/yr business, and managing a $2million real estate partnership, and nonprofit fencing club, she has experience with budgets, finances, accounts payable/receivable, income taxes, etc. The position does not require an MBA to be effective. It requires enough knowledge to provide an oversight function – which Sharol has. Again, in our vision of the organization, a CFO will be the primary person in charge of the finances – not the treasurer. The treasurer will provide an oversight role for the Exec Committee and liaison role with auditors.

The first qualification listed for treasurer is that you were "looking fro an active veteran fencer." That's pretty disturbing.

I felt that Brad Baker, because of his role as a fencer, coach, NCAA experience, referee, and his willingness for open communication on f.net, we felt he would be an excellent secretary. For these reasons, we chose not to run anyone against him.

And because couldn't find a 14 year old to run against him.

-m

[KD5MDK]

It seems to me that if fencers need representing on the Executive Committee, the 20% Athlete Reps would suffice for the elite fencers, and a recreational fencer would be a more representative choice.

[gorgie101]

Originally Posted by T

The final role to fill was treasurer. I was looking for an active veteran fencer as I felt it was important to have a member on the Exec Committee that represented a third of the membership rolls. While Sharol does not have a formal financial background, she has enough knowledge about finances to be effective. From co-running her $5million/yr business, and managing a $2million real estate partnership, and nonprofit fencing club, she has experience with budgets, finances, accounts payable/receivable, income taxes, etc. The position does not require an MBA to be effective. It requires enough knowledge to provide an oversight function – which Sharol has. Again, in our vision of the organization, a CFO will be the primary person in charge of the finances – not the treasurer. The treasurer will provide an oversight role for the Exec Committee and liaison role with auditors.

I personnally don't think your pick for Tres. has the nessasary requirements to be tresaurer. An MBA might not be required but it sure can't hurt to have one. Your plan for a CFO is all fine and dandy but how long do you think it will take to get a CFO in place? What will the treasurers role be in the mean time?

Thanks for the post.

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by arc

... one instance of a predator using information given out by our organization to victimize a minor, and you can probably kiss the Association goodbye, as many states have started to enact specific statutes modifying the usual civil immunities of nonprofits and their officers in the case of sexual abuse of minors.

Isn't this really over the top? You really should add "And GOD himself may come down and throw you into hell if you do it". Makes as much sense as too many of the arguments I hear here.

It seems to me that one of our big problems in the USFA is that we don't have leaders. We have facilitators and they all seem to be willing to bow to anyone who can scare them with some tale of how the USFA main office is going to come down and completely re-write the division, section, club. Or how the USOC is going to come down and completely dismiss the USFA as ngb if we don't do whatever the speaker claims the USOC has mandated. I've seen this practiced as a tactic over and over again in the USFA. It really loses any impact as an argument.

[T]

Originally Posted by gorgie101

I personnally don't think your pick for Tres. has the nessasary requirements to be tresaurer. An MBA might not be required but it sure can't hurt to have one. Your plan for a CFO is all fine and dandy but how long do you think it will take to get a CFO in place? What will the treasurers role be in the mean time?

Thanks for the post.

We will know by July 5, who the next President is. No matter who is elected, the first order of business will be to hire an Exec Director. The search will begin with a week or two after the summer nationals are completed. Since we will be looking within the USFA for the ED, the search time will be greatly reduced and our potential candidates will be relatively easy to identify. But hiring the CFO/COO will be (and should be) the responsibility of the ED. However, we can begin posting this position announcement before the ED is hired. The new officers will take office on August 25. I would expect an ED to be hired by that date and in position shortly thereafter. The CFO should be in place within a month to six weeks after the ED is hired. This puts the CFO in position by about Oct 1.

Before and after that date, the treasurer will be the chair of the budget and finance committee and perform the duties normally expected of a treasurer.

The transition phase implications is a really good question. It is likely to be an important question regardless of who is elected. Because of this important issue, I had a conversation with my Exec Director at the university where I work late this afternoon.

With the transition phase between the new officers, the new ED, and new CFO, as well as the possible shift in organizational structure, if elected, I have been authorized by my Exec Director to offer any necessary transitional (or other) services required by the USFA 'within reason'. This includes the services of any willing faculty that work for the university. These individuals' services would be provided on a volunteer and pro-bono basis as a 'service to the nonprofit community' which, as faculty, we are evaluated on in our annual evaluations. In an informal conversation with my colleagues this afternoon, we have the faculty with the following areas of expertise that have expressed a willingness to provide assistance through any transitional period: Finance Professor (Ph.D. in Financial Economics), Accounting Professor (CPA, PhD in Accounting), Marketing Professor (Ph.D. Marketing), Management Information Systems Professor (Ph.D. in MIS), and a Strategic Management Professor (Ph.D. in Management). Some have even expressed a willingness to continue the relationship passed a transitional period if requested. Of course, as President, my services will also be available as needed (which includes a BBA in Finance, an MBA, and Ph.D. in Management).

While we will attempt to hire an ED and CFO as soon as possible, it may be necessary to call on this volunteer support during the transitional period.

[arc]

Originally Posted by jjefferies

Isn't this really over the top? You really should add "And GOD himself may come down and throw you into hell if you do it". Makes as much sense as too many of the arguments I hear here.

Have you not been paying attention to the astronomical sums various Catholic dioceses have been paying out in recent years? And do you realize that if our leadership evinced the same attitude, and such a situation came to pass, that blowing off the legitimate advice of counsel would most likely result in a finding of gross negligence, additionally opening up the Association to punitive damages? But hey, what do I know? I'm just a member of two state bars, two federal bars, and licensed by the PTO ... but beyond that, you might take a read of some actual legal sources:

Originally Posted by ATLA's Litigating Tort Cases, Ch. 54, Sexual Abuse

§ 54:34. Direct liability of third parties

A victim of sexual abuse may assert direct liability claims against any party whose own negligence or wrongful conduct was a proximate cause of the injury. . . . The standard of care applicable to third parties is the ordinary negligence standard: that of a reasonable prudent entity under all the circumstances. Failure to comply with this standard will subject the defendant to liability for compensatory damages. Although public entities cannot be assessed punitive damages, individuals and private organizations guilty of aggravated misconduct may be liable for such damages.

Seems pretty clear that when an organization is negligent with dissemination of personal information of its members that the organization can be held liable for that; so no, I don't think it's "over the top" for that concern to be expressed or acted upon.

[whtouche]

Originally Posted by T

--snip--
lotsastuff
--snip--

Ok, but aside from the fact that you don't seem to believe that the position is important, I'm still not 100% sure why you didn't think choosing a nominee for treasurer who is qualified for the position was a good idea...

I guess when you decide a certain position is unimportant it allows you to do things like worry more about whether someone is a veteran fencer than if they're capable of handling the position.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by T

With the transition phase between the new officers, the new ED, and new CFO, as well as the possible shift in organizational structure, if elected, I have been authorized by my Exec Director to offer any necessary transitional (or other) services required by the USFA 'within reason'. This includes the services of any willing faculty that work for the university. These individuals' services would be provided on a volunteer and pro-bono basis as a 'service to the nonprofit community' which, as faculty, we are evaluated on in our annual evaluations. In an informal conversation with my colleagues this afternoon, we have the faculty with the following areas of expertise that have expressed a willingness to provide assistance through any transitional period: Finance Professor (Ph.D. in Financial Economics), Accounting Professor (CPA, PhD in Accounting), Marketing Professor (Ph.D. Marketing), Management Information Systems Professor (Ph.D. in MIS), and a Strategic Management Professor (Ph.D. in Management). Some have even expressed a willingness to continue the relationship passed a transitional period if requested. Of course, as President, my services will also be available as needed (which includes a BBA in Finance, an MBA, and Ph.D. in Management).

While we will attempt to hire an ED and CFO as soon as possible, it may be necessary to call on this volunteer support during the transitional period.

I'm not going to lie that sounds like a decent plan. However, why not put up a treasurer who is qualified as well as take the aid of so many volunteers? I don't see the upside of the representative approach when you can have someone who is qualified fill the position.

[FencingKitten]

With regard to the statement that the search for the new ED will begin after Summer Nationals, are the various candidates considering candidates for ED *now* so that they are prepared to make a recommendation as soon as possible? Have they considered the qualifications needed in the new ED, and begun taking applications?

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by FencingKitten

With regard to the statement that the search for the new ED will begin after Summer Nationals, are the various candidates considering candidates for ED *now* so that they are prepared to make a recommendation as soon as possible? Have they considered the qualifications needed in the new ED, and begun taking applications?

I think being a y-14 fencer was one of them.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by T

Again, in our vision of the organization, a CFO will be the primary person in charge of the finances – not the treasurer.

Regardless of which slate wins, this is an excellent concept that needs to be seriously considered. The idea that running the finances should be volunteer work is laughably stupid.

Let's say that Greg is the perfect guy to handle the USFA's finances, and let's say he's elected. What happens when he's no longer treasurer? Or what would have happened if he hadn't agreed to even be in the running now?

The current structure can only work if someone like Greg is available. If not, there's no reason to assume you won't end up with a retard handling the finances.

The USFA needs a professional handling its finances. The only guaranteed way to get professionals is to hire them.

I think the question for both slates shouldn't be "Can we afford a CFO?" It ought to be "How and when can it be done?"

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by Jason

Regardless of which slate wins, this is an excellent concept that needs to be seriously considered. The idea that running the finances should be volunteer work is laughably stupid.

Let's say that Greg is the perfect guy to handle the USFA's finances, and let's say he's elected. What happens when he's no longer treasurer? Or what would have happened if he hadn't agreed to even be in the running now?

The current structure can only work if someone like Greg is available. If not, there's no reason to assume you won't end up with a retard handling the finances.

The USFA needs a professional handling its finances. The only guaranteed way to get professionals is to hire them.

I think the question for both slates shouldn't be "Can we afford a CFO?" It ought to be "How and when can it be done?"

Or to nominate them?

[KD5MDK]

What exactly do people mean by "handle the finances"?

[FencingKitten]

With regard to epeemike81's curiosity about August Skopik, I would like to share the two most memorable personal encounters I have had with him in his home division that give me pause in considering him as a vice president. At the outset, I will emphasize that in both encounters, from the perspective of one of his students, Auggie demonstrated qualities *very* desirable in a coach, but qualities that also leave me with concerns.

At a Southwest Section Circuit Cup event, there are very strict seeding protocols; first the standard seeding protocols used at the national level, plus additional priority given to fencers who are on our section rolling points list. Auggie had several fencers in a particular event, and right after seedings were posted, he was immediately at the bout committee table protesting and insisting that we alter the pool layout, without giving any member of the bout committee and opportunity to explain why two of his fencers were in the same pool when he had fewer fencers than pools. We, two national BC staff members and the most detail-oriented person in the section (and possibly nation), had already studied pools for several minutes to the point of delaying the event, trying to figure out a way to separate the relevant fencers without unfairly unbalancing the pools. Once we were able to get a word in, he understood and returned to coaching, but I would have personally preferred a less confrontational approach.

Second, Gulf Coast Division's JO qualifiers were held in a high school gym with the traditional wood floors. Several fencers were having difficulty with traction in changing directions, to the point that two fencers withdrew under verified medical withdrawls; if I recall correctly, both were from Auggie's club. Several times during the day, we had to continue trying to run the tournament in spite of his forceful comments with regard to possible lawsuits, injury to fencers, etc. The issue that I had with this is that this incident was disruptive to the bout committee's work when every other coach present found the venue to be satisfactory, and no other club's fencers felt the need to withdraw on the basis of an injury due to the flooring.

In summary, I have consistently noticed about Auggie that he is *always, 100%* acting in what he perceives to be the best interests of his fencers. Always. I even find him a likable person. Were he my coach, I would feel secure that my interests were being represented (I appreciate this from my own coach as well, oso ) Frequently, however, I have observed that Auggie allows his desire to get things accomplished to override the need to, quite frankly, "play well with others" within a collective organization in a way that is counterproductive, and that is why I would not recommend him as a vice president of an already-contentious organization.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

Or to nominate them?

No. If a competent person is not willing or able, then the organization is stuck (the USFA is no stranger to having less than capable people in various positions). If the position is a paid job, you don't have to hope (pray?) to find the right person willing to volunteer.

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

What exactly do people mean by "handle the finances"?

While I certainly couldn't say what the FFC slate has in mind for a CFO, in my opinion he should function in the USFA in much the way he does in any organization: be responsible for financial planning, monitoring cashflow, financial reporting, etc.