Photos: USA Olympic Team & Portland NAC

[Timacheff]

Photos from the Portland NAC & Div 1 medal ceremonies, as well as Official Olympic team photos, are now posted at www.fencingphotos.com.

Coming soon, so stay tuned: LOTS of photos from the juniors/cadets in Siciliy, as well as from Beijing and Algeria.

[rustica]

Sooooo, Mariel can't wear the team warmups?

[Capt. Slo-mo]

It's kinda like a Sesame Street song: "Which of these warm-ups is not like the other ones...."

Although to be fair, young Master Kelsey also chose raiments adorned with the "swoosh" instead of the USA Team jackets.

[whtouche]

So is there any story behind their differently-clad-ness?
It's interesting that they had a choice in what to wear for their official team USFA portraits.

[Timacheff]

They are individually sponsored by official Olympic sponsors. Sponsorships are vigorously controlled and managed by the IOC.

[oso97]

The medal shots are nice, yes. But, how about some actual FENCING photos...

[sionnach]

The medal shots are nice, yes. But, how about some actual FENCING photos...

How about some actual manners?

[Craig]

The medal shots are nice, yes. But, how about some actual FENCING photos...

How about this - You pay Serge's way and wages and you can determine what he shoots. (Or, buy a lot of action shots from his store so that he can see that those are selling = impetus to get more up there!)

Serge has always provided great photographs - action, portrait, and artistic shots. I'd say he's about the most prolific photographer for our sport.


Craig

[oso97]

How about this - You pay Serge's way and wages and you can determine what he shoots. (Or, buy a lot of action shots from his store so that he can see that those are selling = impetus to get more up there!)

Actually, I have purchased ~40 different pictures from Serge. All but one are action shots. Edit: Had there been a good action shot of the Round of 8 MS bout in Portland that decided the final slot on the Olympic team, I likely would have purchased it.

How about some actual manners?

Since when is it bad manners to tell a vendor the types of stuff a customer would like? Oh, wait, I see, you're from Europe. I keep forgetting that the European idea of customer service is "Keep your mouth shut, we'll tell you what you want. Your feedback is expressly not of value to us."

[Craig]

[QUOTE=oso97;686691]Actually, I have purchased ~40 different pictures from Serge. All but one are action shots. Edit: Had there been a good action shot of the Round of 8 MS bout in Portland that decided the final slot on the Olympic team, I likely would have purchased it.[?quote]

Good for you. And good feedback.

Since when is it bad manners to tell a vendor the types of stuff a customer would like? Oh, wait, I see, you're from Europe. I keep forgetting that the European idea of customer service is "Keep your mouth shut, we'll tell you what you want. Your feedback is expressly not of value to us."

Reading your post it read sarcastic and acidic, hence the response I made. Had your post been something more along the lines of the first quote above - request for type of shot or bout - nobody would have read it as negative, but rather a good suggestion.

Craig

[oso97]

Reading your post it read sarcastic and acidic, hence the response I made. Had your post been something more along the lines of the first quote above - request for type of shot or bout - nobody would have read it as negative, but rather a good suggestion.

*shrug* Perhaps, but then I just was laboring under the impression that the primary duty of a photographer retained to photograph an event would be there to, well, you know, photograph the event. Yes, its nice to have the medal shots and all, but, ever since the previous photography company was cut, there has been a dearth of actual fencing photography at US National Events. Anecdote: Last year at Summer Nationals in Miami, a friend of mine was fencing in a gold medal bout, which, you may remember was held in a separate room, and also the room where the awards were given out. The photographer who was there to photograph the medal ceremonies was asked to take some shots of the gold medal bout. The photographer refused, and instead sat there and watched the bout, then dutifully took the pictures of the medal ceremony. This just seems, well, odd, at least from my perspective.

[sionnach]

Since when is it bad manners to tell a vendor the types of stuff a customer would like? Oh, wait, I see, you're from Europe. I keep forgetting that the European idea of customer service is "Keep your mouth shut, we'll tell you what you want. Your feedback is expressly not of value to us."

Telling a vendor what you would like is not bad manners. The way in which you told him what you wanted was. It was patronising, condescending and rude. Then you go and make completely ignorant remarks about Europe to top it all off.

[sionnach]

The photographer who was there to photograph the medal ceremonies was asked to take some shots of the gold medal bout. The photographer refused, and instead sat there and watched the bout, then dutifully took the pictures of the medal ceremony. This just seems, well, odd, at least from my perspective.

I'm guessing this was a professional photographer? If you pay a professional the price of taking pics of the medal ceremonies, then they're just going to take pics of the medal ceremonies. You can't expect them to do extra work for free. It's like paying a carpenter to hang a door in a house and then saying "while you're here could you knock up a few shelves for me free of charge?". The photographer did what he was contracted to do, if you want a professional to do more work you pay them more money.

[KD5MDK]

Generally when a professional photographer takes pictures, they sell them. If someone specifically requests pictures of a bout, it's more likely those pictures will sell, at least some.

Miami had a very screwed up photography situation.

[Timacheff]

I think I can help shed some light on this discussion (hopefully better light than we had at the venue)

1. Our deal with the USFA is to shoot medal ceremonies. That's our first priority and professional obligation at the U.S. events we cover (JOs, Summer Nationals, and, for this year at least, this NAC in Portland). These were the events the USFA specifically contracted with us to cover this season.

2. The U.S. coverage is substantively different than what I/we do for world events because of a variety of reasons (at those we document every single semi-final and final), including venue lighting, need/use of the images by the USFA and American Fencing, and our own coverage/usage of these images. We are contracted to "document" the entire event for the FIE; that is not the case here.

3. That said, we DO shoot action shots, people shots, and finals when we get the time and have the resources to document the event. We had two photographers there (meaning Amy and me) as well as one new guy who has just now sent us his photos. Normally we have several hundred photos of these types that we post (even if it's not a comprehensive set of images of all semi-finals and finals). Even if we don't document the entire event, we want to provide a good "visual story" of it. Whether we sell those photos or not is not an issue for that policy. It's just good editorial/photojournalistic practice.

4. The good news: We do have action, people, and finals photos, but we just haven't posted them yet (yes, including the sabre Olympic qualifying bout). Our first priority was to get medal shots uploaded. We've been a bit swamped with photos from Beijing and the Juniors, so we're a little behind and having to do some photo triage...but they're coming in the next few days.

5. I apologize, because I should have mentioned in the announcement of the photos that these other shots are coming soon. I probably could have saved some people a lot of digital breath (!)

6. You should also note that we do offer personal, custom action shoots and/or portraits of individual fencers of them fencing in DEs or pools. These can be scheduled from our booth, and available on a first-come, first-served basis (and based on our schedule and resources).

7. For some "added value," I plan to offer a fencing photography workshop at Summer Nationals. This is still in the works, but it is scheduled (no date/time/location yet, but it will be at the venue). We want to help everyone who's interested have the opportunity to get the best photos they can (without a flash, of course!).

A note about Miami last year, in answer to the comments about it -- I've covered this before on Fencing.net, but I'm happy to do so again. Yes, it was a mess but we made the best of it: The company contracted by the USFA to photograph 2007 Summer Nationals backed out only a few days before the event began, leaving the USFA without a photographer. When I arrived there and learned what had happened, I offered to help by hiring local professional photographers to take images of medal ceremonies only. Since I was fencing, coaching, and without most of my gear, I was not able to do it myself. The photographers we used were good, pro shooters but they had no idea about shooting fencing action and they were not asked to do so. If they wanted to, it was up to them as long as it didn't conflict with a medal ceremony, but that wasn't why they were there. We (the USFA and I) decided that what we needed most were medal ceremonies, so that's what we did. We didn't have the resources to do more than that, but at least we got the medalists plus a little bit more.

Generally speaking, I appreciate everyone's interest and opinion very much. We do try hard to provide a rather unique service to the fencing world, and it is a substantial portion of our photography business. While we do this for a living, our first and foremost goal is to promote the sport and to present it visually to the world in a way it's never been done before, and to get people excited about it who may have never seen it. Sometimes that is a hard thing to do depending upon such factors as venue lighting, finals strips, resources, prioritized obligations, etc. (and I'm not just talking about the USA). On the other hand, sometimes we have amazing lighting combined with incredible competition--an alignment of the fencing planets--so that we can get the kinds of photos that inspire kids and promote fencing in a new and exciting way.

Because I'm a fencer, as well, I take a different approach than if we were just taking photos of a sport for some quick cash. I think most of you who know me also know that if this was my intention, I wouldn't be shooting fencing. This is a difficult sport in which to make a business work, and I've spent hundreds of hours in the last five years sitting on concrete floors shooting more than 1 million images of it. We've made some strides, and we intend to do more. Thanks for all of your support for our work. As always, we value your opinions, criticism, and feedback. Even though I've gotten a couple of good shots here and there, I'm never really happy with my work so I always need to hear about what might make it improve.

And, lastly, I would like to say that I'm really happy that Amy, my wife (who's also a photographer) has been named as the official photographer for the US Team for Beijing. She'll be working with me, as she has at other events (both U.S. and FIE), but she's been specifically assigned to be with the U.S. guys and to cover them; I was really pleased with the portraits she did of the team in Portland, which was a primary reason we were at that event. I trust and hope you will all welcome her as you have me.

Keep the commentary coming...that's what makes Fencing.net great!

Thanks

Serge

[Phincer]

Serge-

Please post the info on the photography workshop as soon as you have it. The sooner I know the easier it will be to make changes to our schedule if needed so my son can attend.

Thanks!

[Mr Epee]

Keep the commentary coming...that's what makes Fencing.net great!

Thanks

Serge

I would just like to take a moment to say thank you for the service you provide.

In my mind, one of the most valuable services that the USFA can provide is the creation and documentation of the history of our sport. It is upon this foundation that the sport can develop.

Back in my competitive days, I was constantly digging for stories and pictures of the fencers who had been part of the sport before me. It was very sad to find how little effort was made to preserve and celebrate the champions that came before.

You provide concrete evidence of today's fencing.

This is a very valuable service.

Thank you.

[Timacheff]

Thanks to both of you. I will do my best to keep visually documenting our sport as it develops and progresses. I will also do the same with the audio interviews Craig and I have started.

Regarding the fencing workshop at nationals I do not yet know specifically which day/time it will take place but I'll let everyone know as soon as I do.

Anyone want to provide some preferences as to whether they would want the workshop during the day or in the evening? Are some days better than others (e.g., the weekends?) ... ?

[oso97]

Thanks Serge for the commentary. Let us know when you get the action shots up from Portland, I have a space in my scrapbook dedicated specifically for that Olympic qualifying bout...

[Timacheff]

They should be up by tomorrow. Amy is supposed to be finished editing them later today.