USFA Election 2008 Debate Question #1: Women’s Epee Program

[oso97]

Like this report? Found http://www.usfencing.org/usfa/compon...tdown/id,1618/

Deliberately choosing the shortest report during a 6 year tenure as an illustrative example. Cute.

How about the one found here? Page 56.
http://www.usfencing.org/usfa/compon...tdown/id,1619/

Its a three page report, documenting replies from the TC to a number of questions posed by the Board of Directors on a variety of topics. Looks pretty comprehensive to me and presents the logical outcomes that would need to be considered if certain motions were passed. In addition, there are several motions on the agenda, made by Ron Herman - those are other recommendations of the TC.

The same National office that is mostly busy processing faxes? Sorry, such statements actually confirm the org is broken and needs a severe restructure.

Like, duh. Question is, who is better suited to pull off such a restructuring? People who know what they're doing, and have contributed positively, or people who threaten to file lawsuits when their assumptions about clearly spelled out election procedures turn out to be in vain.

No one disputes Tracy's passion and desire for transformation. Merely her ability to implement those ideas in a complex governance process. And simply saying that "Its broken, lets throw it all out and start over again," doesn't cut it. For one, there will be many members of the BOD who are not so interested in allowing the people whom the represent to be disenfranchised. Yea, I like many many of Tracy's ideas (technology, open governance, revitalization of weapon squads and national coaches, new tournament possibilities, etc), but there is one BIG one I have a problem with, and that is her vision to remove the volunteers of this organization from any meaningful decision making processes. No, she's not said that is her vision, and if pressed, she'd probably say that isn't what she stands for, but this merely demonstrates (once again) not thinking through all of the implications of a policy, because, that is going to be the end result of all these functions being taken over by paid staff, and removing all the committees who advise the BOD.

It sounds an awful lot like what we've spent the past 6 years resisting USOC about, or the ill-fated bylaws amendment that was put up a couple of years ago that would have eliminated all Sectional and Congress-based representation on the BOD. Yea, THAT was a good idea.

[T]

Taking this post back to the topic of W.epee, here is a copy of a typical email message that was sent to me earlier today. I would say that I receive a couple of emails similar to this every month.

Mrs. Hurley,

I have enjoyed reading the thread about the Women's Epee program. I have been very concerned about this program because the future of it will directly affect my daughter who is 13. She has been fencing for 6 years and has always been in the top 8 in her age division.

First, let me say that the Hurley family is greatly admired among the women's epee community. The other families I talk to understand that these girls have accomplished amazing results with very little national support or leadership. The WE program is going to collapse unless there is proper management. I am concerned because we have been putting alot of money and time into this sport in hopes of our daughter succeeding at the international, national or college level. She is at the point that she needs to be taken to the next level.

Do you have any development suggestions for us? She trains 4 days a week. However, we don't have a "plan" on what needs to be done to continue to have her excel in her sport. We are considering summer camps, but don't have any idea on where to send her. Also, are there certain colleges we should be looking at that have strong women's epee programs?

Thank you for any advice you can provide. It is a shame that I can't contact the USFA to get adequate youth development direction. Hopefully, there will be some changes soon. The organization is in need of an overhaul.

Thank you

[gorgie101]

In as close to a reporter voice as is possible on this forum:

Tracy, if elected as president of the association, how much of your time would be devoted to the women's epee program?

[Right-Handed Lefty]

As this is a debate question and there are two points of view for this issue, I'd like to direct this question to the NC slate.

I'd like to know how much time Ro plans to spend on the WE program. According to his bio, "he is currently Vice President of the USFA." Why has nothing been done for the last 1 1/2 years? According to his proposal, the hiring of a national coach would not occur until after Massick steps down and a new ED is hired. What will Ro accomplish with his next term that couldn't have been done this last term?

[T]

In as close to a reporter voice as is possible on this forum:

Tracy, if elected as president of the association, how much of your time would be devoted to the women's epee program?

While I (and my husband) have extensive knowledge in this area, we are not the only ones. There are plenty of competent and successful coaches and team/athlete managers that could do an excellent job. They only need to be asked and treated with respect. With that said, what we know should be collected and incorporated into institutional knowledge so that it can be included into programs and be readily available. The pipeline proposal provides a great opportunity for disseminating much of the relevant information that I constantly get asked about. Parents need to be involved as their involvement is critical to our developmental and ultimately elite success.

With that said, I see a new HPC that is an advocate for the athletes and not an obstacle to be hurdled. A strong but not dictatorial chair is needed and the committee needs to be driven by fairness, openness, and communication vs. bias, power, and secrecy.

As president, I can't see much of my time being spent on the specific duty of w.epee unless they need my assistance and I am asked. That duty will be delegated to a qualified national epee coach and team manager (which will delegate the developmental functions to the regional directors, etc.).

[gorgie101]

As president, I can't see much of my time being spent on the specific duty of w.epee unless they need my assistance and I am asked. That duty will be delegated to a qualified national epee coach and team manager (which will delegate the developmental functions to the regional directors, etc.).

Thank you for answering my question.

Would the NC Canidates like to chime in?

[mdstasinos]

As president, I can't see much of my time being spent on the specific duty of w.epee unless they need my assistance and I am asked. That duty will be delegated to a qualified national epee coach and team manager (which will delegate the developmental functions to the regional directors, etc.).[/QUOTE]

I find this very hard to believe for two reason...her daughters. Tracy has been consumed with her girls and their fencing careers. Nothing wrong with that in any way but to state that as president you would delegate to a qualified national coach and team manager and would not be involved unless they need her assistance, I don't believe she could remove herself because of her daughters.
So, who would she consider a qualified national women's epee coach? I, as well as others, would be interested in who she feels she could trust her daughters with that she could step back and not be hands on.
http://www.usfanominees.com

[Mo]

As president, I can't see much of my time being spent on the specific duty of w.epee unless they need my assistance and I am asked. That duty will be delegated to a qualified national epee coach and team manager (which will delegate the developmental functions to the regional directors, etc.).

I find this very hard to believe for two reason...her daughters. Tracy has been consumed with her girls and their fencing careers. Nothing wrong with that in any way but to state that as president you would delegate to a qualified national coach and team manager and would not be involved unless they need her assistance, I don't believe she could remove herself because of her daughters.
]

I also brought this up and cannot support T because is is a HUGE FLAMING CONFLICT of interest. Having spent the past 4 years in a fencing program with a team manager who is also a parent, there will be a conflict whether you want there to be or not.
The National Coach concept should be replaced with individual coaches and a manager who is not related to anyone on the team.
The main reason for a manager is to book tickets, help with itineraries and make sure that the fencers will be where they are supposed to be. It is esentially a redundant job anyway that the parents and fencers can handle on their own for the most part.
The high performance committee can handle the big picture.
If coaches cooperated with each other instead of always competing with each other, all the fencers would benefit. Camps where all fencers from a weapon, both male and female, could practice together would be so lovely. Right now the National Coach can say no and that is that. The facility at the OTC is perfect for that.
It is completely natural to want more for your own kid. It is not right or just to want more for your own fencer and keep other fencers from having the same access to funds and training.
Having a President of the USFA who is the mother of two active fencers is a recipe for for for... just say something not good.

Sincerely,
The Momster

[telkanuru]

Yeah, moms of fencers are pretty much all insane

[ysbadadden]

What is Ms. Weeks' situation re conflict of interest?

[B][I]
I find this very hard to believe for two reason...her daughters. Tracy has been consumed with her girls and their fencing careers. ...
I also brought this up and cannot support T because is is a HUGE FLAMING CONFLICT of interest. Having spent the past 4 years in a fencing program with a team manager who is also a parent, there will be a conflict whether you want there to be or not. ...

Sincerely,
The Momster

[oso97]

What is Ms. Weeks' situation re conflict of interest?

I believe her children have not been active fencers for a significant amount of time.

[T]

I find this very hard to believe for two reason...her daughters. Tracy has been consumed with her girls and their fencing careers. Nothing wrong with that in any way but to state that as president you would delegate to a qualified national coach and team manager and would not be involved unless they need her assistance, I don't believe she could remove herself because of her daughters.
So, who would she consider a qualified national women's epee coach? I, as well as others, would be interested in who she feels she could trust her daughters with that she could step back and not be hands on.

First of all, there is a difference between a personal coach and a national coach. And I agree, I will be in my daughters' corners cheering and providing all of the personal coaching that they need. What I meant was that I would not be involved in the national team in terms of coaching and running the program.

I hope the USFA gets their stuff together to put together a national team. If there is going to be a team in London, that needs to start relatively sooner than later. We can't do it all or even most of it.

My pick for national coach? Andrey Geva from Alliance Fencing Academy.

[T]

[B][I]

I also brought this up and cannot support T because is is a HUGE FLAMING CONFLICT of interest. Having spent the past 4 years in a fencing program with a team manager who is also a parent, there will be a conflict whether you want there to be or not.

By definition, everyone running for office has some conflict of interest - that is the nature of our sport and governance structure. Any coach that has a student fencing has a similar conflict of interest. Any referee running for office also has a conflict of interest.

[whtouche]

By definition, everyone running for office has some conflict of interest - that is the nature of our sport and governance structure. Any coach that has a student fencing has a similar conflict of interest. Any referee running for office also has a conflict of interest.

I believe that's why she described your particular conflict as "HUGE" and "FLAMING".

[mdstasinos]

By definition, everyone running for office has some conflict of interest - that is the nature of our sport and governance structure. Any coach that has a student fencing has a similar conflict of interest. Any referee running for office also has a conflict of interest.

That's not exactly true. None of the USFA Nominees have our children actively in selection spots for a team. It becomes extremely personal when it is your own kids. This would be the highest level of personal conflict with the job. As far as the rest of us, yes, a number of us are coaches, parents, referees, Board of Director members, athletes but we do not have the personal verses professional conflict because of our children and their success. If nothing more, in the mind of the membership it would be a issue of where Tracy's underlying interest really is. After all she started campaigning in Tucson last October handing out Buttons and bumper stickers and her main theme then, as now, centered around Women's Epee. What about men's epee, men's and women's foil and men's and women's sabre?
Mark Stasinos
http://www.usfanominees.com

[Mo]

By definition, everyone running for office has some conflict of interest - that is the nature of our sport and governance structure. Any coach that has a student fencing has a similar conflict of interest. Any referee running for office also has a conflict of interest.

There are conflicts of interest and then there are BIG FLAMING CONFLICTS.
Yes everyone does have conflicts. Fencing is an inbred sport due to it's size. But as a mother and an epee fencer, your conflict is like a bonfire compared to a candle.
I am not trying to be a you know what but darn, it is what it is.

The Momster

[piste off]

The last couple of years, for w.epee, has been a constant struggle to get direction in terms of fielding a team at world cup events and finding someone who knows enough about team events to do even an adequate job (which goes beyond flipping a coin to decide who gets the 'up' or 'down' side).

My pick for national coach? Andrey Geva from Alliance Fencing Academy.

My pick would be another Texan, Anton Chigurh. Sometimes the coin toss is important...

Rick

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Yeah, moms of fencers are pretty much all insane

I'll have you know that dads of fencers can be just as whacked, thank you very much!
Here's a question, though: If Tracy becomes The Prez, and there's a Big Pants (tm) FIE Muckie-Muck meeting during the WE event at the Worlds next year...what does she do? Delegate off one of her major responsibilities and be a mom...or be The Prez and abandon the kid unit?

[oso97]

Any referee running for office also has a conflict of interest.

Care to explain this one? The overwhelming majority of the referees that I know are extremely foresightful about removing themselves from conflicts of interest, real or perceived.

[KD5MDK]

I'll have you know that dads of fencers can be just as whacked, thank you very much!
Here's a question, though: If Tracy becomes The Prez, and there's a Big Pants (tm) FIE Muckie-Muck meeting during the WE event at the Worlds next year...what does she do? Delegate off one of her major responsibilities and be a mom...or be The Prez and abandon the kid unit?

I assume she'd send her husband to the strip. He's certainly encouraged them to plenty of successes so far.

My pick for national coach? Andrey Geva from Alliance Fencing Academy.

Andrey is a top notch coach and someone I always enjoy dealing with (how rarely do you hear referees say that?) but as far as organization goes you'll need a very good Team Manager to handle all the details. There's a reason he doesn't host many tournaments at his club.