USFA accepts Election

[T]

Congratulations everyone. Most of you have managed to mimic the BoD, Exec Committee, and the front office! Arguing will get you nowhere except right back where you started from (or a few steps backward).

As difficult as it may be, I’m going to attempt to get back to the issues (perhaps I should post this to the new thread for a “clean election”.

The issues are what we are about and it is the reason why we are contesting the election.

Allen Evans asked
Can you name some other worthwhile projects -- other than "A NAC in every back yard" ? I'm not challenging you on this, I'm just curious if there is something you think the USFA could provide for your local fencing that isn't a NAC?

Part of this answer is provided by Wafath on p. 8 of this thread concerning high school fencing.

The USFA needs to provide support and products to all members. This includes clubs, coaches, etc. High school fencing programs have been very successful in limited markets. Wafath makes some excellent suggestions.

Because clubs are where fencers start their fencing careers, they act as a kind of franchise for our product. Through developing programs that help clubs, the USFA will attract more members through program growth. Many clubs have many customers that are not USFA members because the USFA doesn’t offer them any value. It is sometimes difficult for a club owner to convince them to shell out the membership fee for a magazine (even if it has gotten much better).

By providing a specific service/product of fencing, clubs have been innovative in developing successful programs. These programs contain common elements or best practices that would apply to many other clubs. Some of these programs are things like high school fencing leagues, youth leagues, parent/child contests, etc. By bringing these ideas into a franchise type operating manual, other clubs can take each program, assess whether it is something they might like to try, make modifications to suit their demographics and their fencing space, etc.

In addition, the USFA needs to provide a coordinated marketing effort that originates with the national office and works to provide promotional material (like for the programs developed above) as well as business templates, forms, etc. that will help in starting a new business, getting a small business loan, or setting up a nonprofit status, selecting a board of directors, etc. The USFA’s first line of our product is the local club and coaches.

Essentially, the department that we propose as Membership and Customer Service will be responsible for implementing the ideas that are put forward by the Coaches & Clubs Committee. This coordinated effort will help implement new programs for clubs that have been tested and proved to already have been successful.

[T]

And just for all of the SEMs and darius’s out there…

We knew about the Arbitration deadline. We assumed the process was
1. send in the petitions
2. get validated petitions
3. sign arbitration agreements
4. have an election

We were told everything was fine and the paperwork would be sent to us. We were not the only ones that made the process assumption outlined above (the election committee made the same assumption). There is no arbitration process to agree to until we were candidates. In other words, the arbitration agreement was never intended to be a restriction for validating candidates. It was meant to act as a guide during the election process and to resolve conflicts when/after ballots were counted. The agreement to accept arbitration doesn’t affect anything until there is an actual election.

Should we have to ask for a form or should there be a process in place that sends it out when candidates who meet the petition requirements? Obviously, there are different opinions on this one and hind-sight is 20-20.

And for those of you interested, once the General Council for the USFA became involved in the process, we felt it was necessary to fight fire with fire. From my past experiences, that is the only form of communication that he understands (although I have always been friendly with him but I have heard many not so nice stories). According to some people we should have just packed up our tents and gone home with no questions asked. I doubt most of you would have done that.

If I was SEM and darius, I would be more concerned about why an Election Committee chair and the General Council would hijack an election system (even after the error of their ways were pointed out, the Election Committee chair still voted against the resolution that the rest of the Committee voted in favor of). Did they have something to gain out of it? Was there something, some position, or some status quo they were attempting to protect? The answer to this question may lead you to an answer that provides some insight into why the election is being contested in the first place. Or perhaps it was all just a coincidence.

[tchwojko]

One thing that f.net is good for is bringing out all of the people who insist that things are too complicated and why things won’t work.

There is a difference between saying "There are complications to a seemingly simple problem" and "It's too complicated to solve".

It sounds like people (e.g. Dan, Peet) who understand the complications are moving forward on some issues.

The question for my vote is: which candidates also understand the complications, and know how to balance the risk/reward?

[SEM Fencer]

And just for all of the SEMs and darius’s out there…

We knew about the Arbitration deadline. We assumed the process was

Aha! There it is. That little word "assume." You know what it means, right? No one confirmed any of this? hmmm.

[fencinginDC]

I've said this many times, but I want to be sure this point again. I don't personally know either of the presidential candidates, and just a few of the others. I didn't start this process with any preconceived notions, I was just looking for information on f.net because there really isn't another source of information. That said, three points:

If you want to provide leadership, you CANNOT say/write stuff like I quoted below. That isn't out of context and isn't a singular example. I made the point several times that an effective leader should be able to meet/talk with the opposing group and develop common goals and a slate that all can support. That suggestion went completely unanswered, because neither presidential candidate has the ability to work together through a difficult situation. Don't list some lame excuses about why you couldn't do that. People do so all the time. "T" seems far too focused on the conflict and power issues. Just because you have good ideas, and good intentions, doesn't mean you are capable of leading the USFA through the changes that are needed. I have really been surprised that you think it's OK to say/write some of the things you have. These weren't horribly insulting, or lies, or anything serious like that. They were just examples of lousy leadership, which is what the USFA needs MOST.

Lumping all the comments into a collective, useless *****-fest is a way to diminish the strength and value of criticism and opinions that are different than your own. I have not been stating reasons why things counldn't be done. If I felt that way about a specific issue, I believe that I stated why, and try to express my beliefs as an opinion, not a fact.

And another issue that gets completely overlooked is the point I have tried to make several times in different ways. The USFA will be stuck in this mess every year, and will remain disjointed and chaotic, until the governing structure of the USFA is changed, a position supported by the USOC and by any person I know to have meaningful non-profit management experience (whether it relates to the USFA or not). Go ahead and tell me all these things you want to do, but until you have a structure that includes the skills and experience and objective analytics necessary for good decision-making, you might as well just start beating your head against the wall right now. It's possible, but will likely take 10 times the effort. So, what are you (I don't care which "you" answers this) going to do to address this?

I think the way things have been handled will ensure that the NC slate will win an election. That is NOT an endorsement of the NC slate. Mostly, it is a matter of degree. Both groups have some good things to say and I hope someone has taken good notes. Success will depend on their ability to bring in others, and manage the process, while moving the organization into the 21st century.

Congratulations everyone. Most of you have managed to mimic the BoD, Exec Committee, and the front office! Arguing will get you nowhere except right back where you started from (or a few steps backward).

As difficult as it may be, I’m going to attempt to get back to the issues (perhaps I should post this to the new thread for a “clean election”.

[hpfencing]

an effective leader should be able to meet/talk with the opposing group and develop common goals and a slate that all can support. That suggestion went completely unanswered, because neither presidential candidate has the ability to work together through a difficult situation. Don't list some lame excuses about why you couldn't do that. People do so all the time. "T" seems far too focused on the conflict and power issues.

Is it about power or about making the BESYT for the USFA and it's fencers.

Effective leaders are also willing to get their hands dirty and spend 12 hours a day refereeing, coaching and helping wwith little or no bbenifit or personal agenda.

[jjefferies]

If you want to provide leadership, you CANNOT say/write stuff like I quoted below. That isn't out of context and isn't a singular example. I made the point several times that an effective leader should be able to meet/talk with the opposing group and develop common goals and a slate that all can support. That suggestion went completely unanswered, because neither presidential candidate has the ability to work together through a difficult situation. Don't list some lame excuses about why you couldn't do that. People do so all the time. "T" seems far too focused on the conflict and power issues. Just because you have good ideas, and good intentions, doesn't mean you are capable of leading the USFA through the changes that are needed. I have really been surprised that you think it's OK to say/write some of the things you have. These weren't horribly insulting, or lies, or anything serious like that. They were just examples of lousy leadership, which is what the USFA needs MOST.

Well, I imagine T is human enough to feel old about some of what has net posters going on about. And by "old" I mean getting tired of seeing the same mistakes made again and again. We've had more than four years of promises of fixes (the online registration being the simplest to point to) as soon as they are studied. And again I'm hearing that we can have these things done as soon as the database is corrected etc. I believe a term I've heard applied here is Analysis Paralysis and it seems to fit.

And yes there is obviously a power struggle going on and there are probably a few back room back scratching arrangements going on. Even O'Bear acknowledged that there were some paybacks for the NC's activities. But by who and for what reason is still hidden. Sorry FencinginDC but I don't buy this as lousy leadership. Even the best leadership will have rough edges. You can't finesse everything.

Best regards guys. It's after midnight and I've read way more than I should.

[Mr Epee]

Is it about power or about making the BESYT for the USFA and it's fencers.

Remember, kids, you can't spell BESYT without " T ".

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[KD5MDK]

Sure you can. It's clearly a typo. I don't know why you're so irresponsible as to not be like hpfencing and be concerned with what's BESY for US fencers.

[epeemike81]

Well, my lazy ass just finished reading this, and it's good! The requirements for the database schema are well thought out. I'm also very happy to see that they are getting Dan Berke (FencingTime) and Peet Sasaki (askFRED) involved. My perfect world would be exactly as described in that document.

So is your vote changing, then?

-m

[epeemike81]

Effective leaders are also willing to get their hands dirty and spend 12 hours a day refereeing, coaching and helping wwith little or no bbenifit or personal agenda.

I agree with this... I've seen the NC Slate do so throughout their careers as bout committee and referees. What volunteering has Ms. Hurley (or for that matter, any member of her slate other than Bruno Goosens) done for the organization?

It's certainly possible that she has and I just somehow missed it, but in my experience I've only ever encountered her as a parent and coach of her daughters. As Darius said, that's very worthwhile, but hardly a qualification to lead the USFA.

-m

[epeemike81]

Greg can argue that the problem is too complicated to solve quickly but that is just not the case. Millions of small (very small) companies run complex database programs with an online inventory and ordering system. I doubt seriously that an online registration and event registration system is any more complex than these systems and I suspect that it is simpler in many respects.

more complex? probably not. However, how long did those companies take to initially develop their database? we're talking about building a new database. There are two options: Purchase or build. Speaking as somebody who designs and maintains databases for a living (SQL Server 2000 and 2005), I can tell you it will take some significant development. The trade off here is money v. time. We can do it good and fast, but it will be frankly cost prohibitive for the USFA right now.

And as part of an overall technology implementation, it works quite well as a first phase. There are plenty of third-party platforms out there that offer this solution at reasonable prices. I agree, it needs to be planned and aimed toward the future for growth. No argument there. But we’re talking about a database application that needs to run on a secure server that includes the expansion capability to add several additional modules. Take a look at what USATriathlon uses www.usatriathlon.org . The point is that there are successful and effective models out there that require little customization. Most everyone agrees that this is something that we want done. But you can’t give it to a committee and let them ponder over it for 3 years. A committee establishes the required information for proposals including data items, price, capacity, etc.; a staff person should issue a RFP from vendors, a committee should review the proposals, and a make a recommendation to accept one of them and begin implementation. This is a process that shouldn’t take more than 6 months and probably a lot less (and I never suggested that this process could be tackled in one weekend).

2 questions:
1) What is your estimate for what the winning bid in response to the RFP will be?
2) Where is that money coming from?

-m

[gorgie101]

If I was SEM and darius, I would be more concerned about why an Election Committee chair and the General Council would hijack an election system (even after the error of their ways were pointed out, the Election Committee chair still voted against the resolution that the rest of the Committee voted in favor of). Did they have something to gain out of it? Was there something, some position, or some status quo they were attempting to protect? The answer to this question may lead you to an answer that provides some insight into why the election is being contested in the first place. Or perhaps it was all just a coincidence.

The bold text should have been left out. All of you other points were well thought out and concise but this one was in very poor taste and is rather hypocritical given your statements about mud slinging at the start of the post.

Best to leave the conspiriacy theories to the peanut gallery.

[keith]

It's certainly possible that she has and I just somehow missed it, but in my experience I've only ever encountered her as a parent and coach of her daughters. As Darius said, that's very worthwhile, but hardly a qualification to lead the USFA.

They can't run the company because they haven't worked here for the last twenty years?

Dr Hurley's background certainly qualifies her as a candidate to run and reorganise the USFA. Of course even if she is the best qualified candidate she may not be the best candidate.

Trouble is you can't run volunteer databases to pull in individuals with outside expertise and then tell them that; "sorry before we can get your meaningful involvement you have to run BC for ten years". It ain't going to work.

Either you keep the current system of people coming into the sport and being active volunteers before moving up the organisational ranks or you accept that yes it is perfectly valid when people with useful expertise appear that they get drafted in so that the USFA can immediately use that expertise.

As an aside it might be an idea for the next set of administrators of the USFA to devise and implement a system of recognition and reward for its volunteer cadre.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

They can't run the company because they haven't worked here for the last twenty years?

Dr Hurley's background certainly qualifies her as a candidate to run and reorganise the USFA. Of course even if she is the best qualified candidate she may not be the best candidate.

Trouble is you can't run volunteer databases to pull in individuals with outside expertise and then tell them that; "sorry before we can get your meaningful involvement you have to run BC for ten years". It ain't going to work.

haha I would say "meaningful involvement" covers a a few positions other than just the President.

[epeemike81]

They can't run the company because they haven't worked here for the last twenty years?

Dr Hurley's background certainly qualifies her as a candidate to run and reorganise the USFA. Of course even if she is the best qualified candidate she may not be the best candidate.

This isn't like running a company. The President is not a CEO, but rather a position with far less authority who will need to work closely with the boards and committees. It is a HUGE benefit to know the people involved in the institution you wish to change.

Trouble is you can't run volunteer databases to pull in individuals with outside expertise and then tell them that; "sorry before we can get your meaningful involvement you have to run BC for ten years". It ain't going to work.

I would never suggest that people need to run BC for ten years before they can help out, but if you want to volunteer it is unrealistic to make your VERY FIRST foray into that field at the executive committee level.

Experience matters, but as important is the fact that the Nominated candidates have repeatedly shown THROUGH THEIR ACTIONS that they have the interests of the organization at heart. They have consistently been voices of reform and change on the board and have donated countless hours of their lives to the effort of reforming the organization.

The Hurley slate has simply not. They have only been involved in the sport from the perspective of fencers and coaches. They have never prior to this shown any interest in helping the organization as a whole.

Either you keep the current system of people coming into the sport and being active volunteers before moving up the organisational ranks or you accept that yes it is perfectly valid when people with useful expertise appear that they get drafted in so that the USFA can immediately use that expertise.

Examples of the latter are clearly shown with Peet and Dan. There is, however, a big difference between seeking out talented people and asking for their help on certain projects and electing an executive committee who lack the experience and knowledge of the system they seek to change.

In order to change the system, it is a major benefit to understand it.

As an aside it might be an idea for the next set of administrators of the USFA to devise and implement a system of recognition and reward for its volunteer cadre.

Which is exactly part of the USFA Nominees platform:

Recognition:

Finally, we need to set up mechanisms to recognize volunteers. We rely on people to give hundreds of hours of their time annually. Generally not receiving even a “Thanks” in return. This must be fixed.

One program that we currently have is the “service pins” for those who serve as volunteer officials – referees, technicians, bout committee staff, and athletic trainers – for at least 5 days at Summer Nationals. These pins, now in their fourth year, have been generally well received. Especially among the referee corps, where the uniform incorporates a blazer with lapels that can easily serve to display such pins, it’s common to see people in tournaments around the country proudly sporting these tokens of recognition.

Finding other ways to recognize people for the time, energy, and service that they provide is not only vital to our continued functioning, it’s the right thing to do.

We need to systematically identify the ways in which interested people can volunteer to help serve USFencing. For each of these roles we should then determine what, if any, requirements and qualifications are necessary or desirable. We can then advertise these needs and what steps an interested candidate should take in order to begin the process.

While in many cases this should take place at the local level, where the actual service is likely to begin, much of the work that needs to be done is the same. It’s most efficient and effective to have this framework created once and then replicated, with modifications to fit local needs and circumstances, rather than reinvented in each of the 68 divisions. The general information can be hosted as part of the national website, and then copied for local use.

One or more individuals should be identified to help define a framework of development for each type of volunteer work. The current national bout committee staff should be called upon to help design a system for how people new to this area can learn. A group of experienced division leaders should come up with a list of Best Practices, hints, tips, and advice for new division officers.

-m

[keith]

haha I would say "meaningful involvement" covers a a few positions other than just the President.

There is no activity related to the administration of the USFA that cannot be protected by the "haven't served their time" cry.

If the claim is that the USFA needs to reorganise and become a proactive rather than a reactive organisation then truth be told it is the post of president that is most suitable. Stick successful individuals into 'advisory' roles and committees where they feel that their input is not being acted on, and they will just drift away.

There is a degree of double think going on in complaining that the challenging candidates have not served the USFA sufficiently while a "volunteer database" will magically improve the USFA by allowing the drafting in of all sorts of qualified individuals.

Here is a shocking thought;
The people best suited to running the USFA may not necessarily be those who have devoted the most time to the organisation.

[epeemike81]

Here is a shocking thought;
The people best suited to running the USFA may not necessarily be those who have devoted the most time to the organisation.

That thought is far from shocking. in fact, the NC passed over some interested candidates who have devoted more time to the organization than the nominees because they weren't the right people for the job.

-m

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Questions to both of the competing groups:

Since there are 65+ non-fencing NGB´s in Sweden, it stands to reason that there should be at least 50 in the USA. Among such a large group, there should be some good ideas ready to copy straight away. What efforts have been done in that regard?

To the candidates:
1. Have you, or anyone else on your side, studied non-fencing NGB´s from USA to such detail so that you would find whatever directly applicable programs/items/stuff they might have? If the answer is no, go to question 2 and then 4.
2. Why have you not done this check? Lack of time, disregarded it out of hand, some other reason - (describe in detail!)?
3. Did you find anything worthwhile? If so, what and from which non-fencing NGB?
4. Have you, or anyone else on your side, studied fencing NGB´s from other countries than USA to such detail so that you would find whatever directly applicable programs/items/stuff they might have? If the answer is no, go to question 5 and stop after that.
5. Why have you not done this check? Lack of time, disregarded it out of hand, some other reason - (describe in detail!)?
3. Did you find anything worthwhile? If so, what and from which foreign fencing NGB?


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[keith]

That thought is far from shocking. in fact, the NC passed over some interested candidates who have devoted more time to the organization than the nominees because they weren't the right people for the job.

-m

Really? Unless someone on the NC breached confidentiality you probably shouldn't know that

Anyway, reading some of the comments on the merits of the various candidates you would think it was a novel thought.