USFA accepts Election

[ivlobane]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

Payroll or honorarium obligations for contract employees paid by a non-profit are a little more complicated than simply setting up a Pay Pal account.

AE

As far as I know no modern tools were used in regards to finance ever, and there was a huge deficit. Not one person could say exactly how much it was. It took manhours from an auditor to figure it out. With modern real-time finance tools this does not happen. That's what I was talking about, not implying that we set up an empty pay pal account.

[Allen Evans]

I think that "real time financial tools" are not as powerful as you think. Being someone who uses them every day and having worked in issuing payrolls (for LLPs and LLCs) doing something that Greg proposes (paying temporary workers as they walk out the door, with firm accounting controls in place) is a little more complicated than someone might think, hence my sideways PayPal reference.

Allen Evans

[ivlobane]

Originally Posted by epeelion

Then you really can't make an informed judgment in either direction. Nor can you claim anything about what one side is saying, if you admit to not being completely informed.

??? This forum, I hope is the least official unit of information about both slates. Their websites are. Comparing them is what gives me information. In general, the NC slate's philosophy seems to be this:

Finally, a patchwork of great ideas and quick fixes will not serve our members well. The organization is complex and multi-faceted—changes in one area have effects in others, so a comprehensive and coordinated plan must be put in place.

While the USFFC is this:

The USFA cannot lose sight of its main products:

Organizing National Tournaments for all athletes. Supporting the clubs and coaches in order to help them grow and prosper. Promoting our sport to both members and non-members. Preparing elite athletes for international success. Providing membership services.

The USFFC sees me as a customer. They are looking at immediately implementing askFRED or another tech. The NC slate is talking to me like a member, asking to "Hang on, this is not easy, and if you have input, we'll consider everybody's." Analysis Paralysis.

Looking through what I could on this forum, the conversations from Greg_D basically reflect that. It's like he's afraid to step on toes. (Except Tracy's)

And in general, who's vision would I share? A mother of two super succesful fencers who's program she developed from scratch while employed at a University doing non-profit organization?

Or Greg, whom I know only from politics? And now from implying I took a bribe from Tracy?

[DJ Apostrophe]

Originally Posted by ivlobane

As far as I know no modern tools were used in regards to finance ever, and there was a huge deficit. Not one person could say exactly how much it was. It took manhours from an auditor to figure it out. With modern real-time finance tools this does not happen. That's what I was talking about, not implying that we set up an empty pay pal account.

You're simply wrong.

Call it misinformed, under-informed, whatever you like, but the fact remains, you're wrong.

The national offices uses, and has been using for some time, Quickbooks. It isn't the most proficient financial software out there (the good stuff is INSANELY expensive), but it is sufficient for an operation the size of our organization. Even with the tools in place it isn't an easy process, and auditors are usually involved in any corporate environment, because having double and triple checking of your financial data is not only a good idea(tm), it's damned near essential.

-w

[TBean]

Originally Posted by ivlobane

You know, I'm just fed up. All I hear from Tracy's campaign are ideas and solutions and all I hear from the other side are reason why things will not work.

You are correct in that we hear ideas from Dr. Hurley, but we have no idea if the solutions will work given the reality of the governance and financial situation of the USFA. All of Dr. Hurley's ideas have merit and can be bourne out in many real-world situations in healthy, well-governed, financially sound non-profits - I know I have worked for several that meet that definition.

However, the USFA is not in that situation at the moment as they are running a deficiet budget with a awkward governing structure. Dr. Hurley's plans call for capacity investment that is not feasible at this moment in time. It calls for an exceptionally robust staff that does not exist. It wants a governance structure that will require re-writing the bylaws. Dr. Hurley lays out plans that are fine ideas but are not reachable by the organization anytime soon and does not acknowledge that fact.

At least Greg and the rest of the nominated slate are honest about the current limitations and want to find reasonable and measured way of achieving a better USFA. In the final wash, the end-goal of the two slates is not that different, it is just one has a better chance of getting there though being realistic and I do not believe that it is Dr. Hurley.

[epeelion]

How is it analysis paralysis when the NC has proposed a plan for implementing what we need? You're saying you'd rather have the quick fixes and be treated like a consumer that needs to be appeased immediately, rather than as someone who understand the need for a comprehensive plan?

I guess I just disagree.

As for whose vision? Well, Tracy's success with her daughters, while absolutely impressive, has no relevance. In fact, in some ways it's a bad thing. Why? Well, Tracy wants to make longer tournaments, even two-day ones. What? How? Maybe that works for kids who are homeschooled or have special arrangements with their schools, but for the vast majority of other juniors in the nation, that means bye-bye to a substantial number of tournaments, due to the amount of school they're missing already.

Greg I've talked to personally and know personally to be quite efficient and matter-of-fact, so I just trust him.

[seak]

Originally Posted by ivlobane

Or Greg, whom I know only from politics? And now from implying I took a bribe from Tracy?

Oh c'mon you know Greg (or should), from something other then politics. He's only been the head ref at Cherry Blossom for the last couple years, and run all of the Ref clinics in the area. including ones that your fencers have attended. NM the fact that he's on the FOC and you coach and fence at the NAC's.

Also, he's the one that's been pushing the paying ref at the door thing for a while now. This is just how fast he think that the USFA can commit to doing it, based on the fact that they have debts they currently need to pay - off before they can pay refs as they walk out the door.

I'm not totally sure why, you're so anti the nominating comt slate, but you're clearly entitled to your opinion, but both sides have ideas, and good ones. I don't think we as an organization will be best served if statements such as bribing people, and the nominating comt slate is what the old guard wants. etc etc aren't made and the election is discussed on the issues. And no I don't think you were bribed to sign the petition.

[hello?]

Originally Posted by T

In addition, I made a scientific analysis of the factors that go into creating successful athletes (I'll let their performance be the validation of the model).

Dr. Moreau?

[ivlobane]

Originally Posted by epeelion

How is it analysis paralysis when the NC has proposed a plan for implementing what we need? You're saying you'd rather have the quick fixes and be treated like a consumer that needs to be appeased immediately, rather than as someone who understand the need for a comprehensive plan?

I guess I just disagree.

As for whose vision? Well, Tracy's success with her daughters, while absolutely impressive, has no relevance. In fact, in some ways it's a bad thing. Why? Well, Tracy wants to make longer tournaments, even two-day ones. What? How? Maybe that works for kids who are homeschooled or have special arrangements with their schools, but for the vast majority of other juniors in the nation, that means bye-bye to a substantial number of tournaments, due to the amount of school they're missing already.

Greg I've talked to personally and know personally to be quite efficient and matter-of-fact, so I just trust him.

Not immediately appeased, but I work in the IT industry and the tech moves so quick, that you just have to choose a point to start and go from there. By the time you are done with prolonged comprehensive planning, the tech is obsolete and/or changed. There are immediately available solutions: askFRED, WuFoo, google tools... The desicion just has to be made to go with a set and then implement/upgrade as necessary.
If, for example, the NC slate wants to develop a new database and online registration in-house, that is a mistake. That will require an expensive IT contract to do well. Switching to askFRED and/or WuFoo or another service will not .

The tournaments and juniors thing I'm not so sure about either, so I do want to hear about it more. From both slates. Her other ideas about hiring a CFO and setting up pre-paid accounts and such seem like her resume coming through.

[jfarmer]

Originally Posted by epeelion

How is offering prizes in return for signing NOT somewhat weird/suspicious at worst? Why is it incorrect to wonder about it?

So in other words, it's "suspicious" that my local blood drive called me to come give blood today(*) and "I would get a pint of ice cream!" (really, really good ice cream at that...)

The simple fact that the FFC group was giving out tokens when people signed up is not weird or suspicious. If your local city councilor gave you a key fob when asking for your vote, does that mean that she just "bribed" you (Greg_D's words)?


(*) And I would be there in a heartbeat but for the fact that I'm teaching two fencing classes & giving some individual lessons starting at 5:30...

[seak]

...well the blood drive is bribing you

bribery's not always a bad thing though

[ivlobane]

Originally Posted by seak

Oh c'mon you know Greg (or should), from something other then politics. He's only been the head ref at Cherry Blossom for the last couple years, and run all of the Ref clinics in the area. including ones that your fencers have attended. NM the fact that he's on the FOC and you coach and fence at the NAC's.

Also, he's the one that's been pushing the paying ref at the door thing for a while now. This is just how fast he think that the USFA can commit to doing it, based on the fact that they have debts they currently need to pay - off before they can pay refs as they walk out the door.

I'm not totally sure why, you're so anti the nominating comt slate, but you're clearly entitled to your opinion, but both sides have ideas, and good ones. I don't think we as an organization will be best served if statements such as bribing people, and the nominating comt slate is what the old guard wants. etc etc aren't made and the election is discussed on the issues. And no I don't think you were bribed to sign the petition.

Well, I suspect who he is, but I could be wrong and we definitely have never been introduced... So I'm not so sure. I also do not know who you are, sorry. So you have me at an advantage... If he has anything to do with the Cherry Blossom, I'm all ears about how he could transfer that tournament's merit into his dealings with the USFA. That is a great, well run, fun event. Honestly, it's my second favorite tournament ever, the first being the White Bear in Berlin.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by seak

Oh c'mon you know Greg (or should), from something other then politics. He's only been the head ref at Cherry Blossom for the last couple years, and run all of the Ref clinics in the area. including ones that your fencers have attended. NM the fact that he's on the FOC and you coach and fence at the NAC's.

Referees tend to be incredibly important to other referees. Their names and faces are not remotely interesting to the vast majority of fencers.

In fact, a good referee should be a lot like a good bartender. If he's doing his job correctly, you should hardly notice that he's there.

This is especially true in epee fencing.

[epeelion]

Yes they are bribing you, technically speaking. As SEAK said, that's not inherently a bad thing, really, and Greg didn't say it was. I also didn't mean that it actually was suspicious, just that it's not invulnerable from someone thinking it was. I agree that it's a bit silly to throw accusations out about Dr. Hurley buying her votes, but one also shouldn't take offense when something like that is pointed out. Either way, Greg's point was about the percentage of the voters, not about the "bribing" itself.

[seak]

Originally Posted by ivlobane

I also do not know who you are, sorry. So you have me at an advantage... I

glad to here you like Cherry Blossom.

Randomly enough I don't think we've ever been formally introduced, I only know you by repute. If you're really curious who I am though ask around tonight at practice. I was Christina's roommate last year (I dunno that most people there would know my online handle, since they don't post here).

Also you've probably seen me running around behind the BC table at Cherry Blossom

[ivlobane]

Originally Posted by epeelion

Yes they are bribing you, technically speaking. As SEAK said, that's not inherently a bad thing, really, and Greg didn't say it was. I agree that it's a bit silly to throw accusations out about Dr. Hurley buying her votes, but one also shouldn't take offense when something like that is pointed out. Either way, Greg's point was about the percentage of the voters, not about the "bribing" itself.

Sorry, I find it insulting when someone accuses me of taking a bribe. In fact, being the grandson of a Soviet Officer, a vision of my grandfather came to me and demanded that I challenge Greg_D to a duel.

Oh wait, we're fencers! Maybe I should just challenge him to a bout! If I win, he has to publicly admit and apologize! If I loose, then I vote for him! How's that, Greg_D? Eh?

[jfarmer]

Originally Posted by ivlobane

Oh wait, we're fencers! Maybe I should just challenge him to a bout! If I win, he has to publicly admit and apologize! If I loose, then I vote for him! How's that, Greg_D? Eh?

Foam Wacky Wackers at 4 meters.... Ready? Fence!

[mgriff]

I've been trying to let this one pass without commenting on it, but I just can't. It still shocks me.

Originally Posted by T

Based on the description of the TC in the Operations Manual, the important skills for a TC chair are
1. logistics
2. establishing criteria for NAC proposals (number of strips, etc.)
3. reviewing and evaluating the proposals to establish if they meet the required criteria, etc.
4. Personnel assignments for NAC bout committees
5. knowledge of qualifying procedures that might be relevant

Unfortunately for epeemike81, I’m not going to provide a list of possible TC chairs. I have several people in mind but have not yet discussed it with them and would not consider posting their names absent of their consent. I agree with Jason’s comment that no US Presidential candidates have named any of their cabinet members yet and it is a bit early to be talking about Committee chair positions.

Most importantly, this person needs to have the commitment to establish a fencer-friendly NAC structure that is inline with more frequent but smaller NACs which promotes the idea of ‘more quality bouts’. Some knowledge of running tournaments would also be necessary but it is not required that this person be an automatic bout committee chair at any NACs. But instead be a very good coordinator of people, equipment, and venues.

While traditionally, the TC has been an extremely influential and important committee and I expect this to remain that way to a certain extent, I also envision staff personnel performing many of the functions that the TC has done. This would allow the TC to do what they are actually intended to do: provide oversight, as opposed to what they have evolved into for the USFA: producing our product.

So why am I shocked?

I'm shocked because it sounds like T's knowledge of what the TC does comes essentially from the Ops Manual and not much from actual contact or discussions with the TC members or even bout committee staff volunteers. This is rather like trying to referee a bout with only the knowledge obtained from the Rules Book. There's a reason the FOC gives practical exams, and that the highest referee ratings cannot be obtained without substantial tournament experience--knowing the rules is only the start.

The Ops Manual doesn't--and I'm not sure how it could--explain all the interactions among the various committees, like how a change in tournament formats such as adding more team competitions or dropping repechage (TC) might affect the international development programs (HPC & national coaches) or officials requirements (FOC), or how changes in the kinds of tournaments we offer (more and smaller, say) would affect the finances, in terms of the number and size of venues we'd need. All of these sorts of proposals require knowledge of the full range of their potential effects.

If the FFC's knowledge of how the USFA board, the national office, and all its current committees currently interact in fact comes mostly from the Ops Manual, I would be quite concerned about their ability to judge who to appoint to those committees, let alone to determine whether and how the existing committee structure should be changed to better serve USFA's needs.

If my inference of book knowledge without accompanying practical knowledge is incorrect, I hope that the FFC candidates will provide further explanation.

Cert