Firefly Fencing

[aamct2]

I'd like to second the remote being a priority.

Another question though. Will the firmware updates be free to download? Or will the have an update fee?

[ddavis]

Just a thought...

Fencers often like to test their weapons in between points, as described above, it looks like in order to test, you have to essentially start and stop the clock (two beeps). This seems somewhat in-elegant.

Instead, why not make it such that a normal test of the weapon (holding the tip down for <1 sec) does _not_ start the auto clock circuitry. However, if you hold the tip down for longer than 1 sec then you perhaps get a special beep and _that_ starts the auto clock. Obviously none of this is necessary for saber.

[Wafath]

One thing you may want to consider doing is to offer early adopters a few versions of the firmware with different rules & conditions for the auto-clock. I suspect that it will require a lot of testing, tweaking & research to get a good user interface.

In short, put this feature into a wide-spread beta among the paying customers, and let them suggest ways to tweak it.

W

[CrazyLittle]

What transmission medium will the remote use? Is the hardware needed for that already built into the machine itself?

Is the Firefly self-standing?

How durable are the buttons? I see you're using SMT switches for the control buttons, but what happens if a fencer's misplaced attack hits a button?

Where does a grounded piste attach to the device? Where would extension lights attach?

Do you have any better quality photos of the device? Both front and back?

[Todd Brown]

Firefly is self-standing; it includes a stand that allows you to stand it on the floor or on a table. With spacers, FF can be mounted on a wall, or with a second handle it can be mounted on a wall with clips. Furthermore, it's light enough that it could be mounted very easily with adhesive or adhesive velcro.

The buttons are not designed to be pressed with a weapon. As a matter of fact, I chose very small buttons that are nearly impossible to be activated with a weapon to discourage fencers from doing just this. If a misplaced attack hits a button, well...there will be a time-space singularity that will destroy all life on this planet. Please utilize appropriate tip control when using Firefly.

The grounded piste connection is on the back side (it's a banana jack). Extension lights will attach via the DB9 serial connector when they're available. Furthermore, I hope to make available a breakout box that will make it easy to attach homemade expansion lights, or off-the-shelf expansion lights from other vendors.

Currently, there is a IR detector for use with an IR (line-of-sight, like your TV remote) remote. I am also considering an RF option which would require two parts: the actual remote itself and a DB9 backshell which would contain the RF receiver.

I will endeavor to get some more representative photos of Firefly online.

Todd Brown
Firefly Fencing LLC

[bjacobs]

Originally Posted by ddavis

Just a thought...

Fencers often like to test their weapons in between points, as described above, it looks like in order to test, you have to essentially start and stop the clock (two beeps). This seems somewhat in-elegant.

Instead, why not make it such that a normal test of the weapon (holding the tip down for <1 sec) does _not_ start the auto clock circuitry. However, if you hold the tip down for longer than 1 sec then you perhaps get a special beep and _that_ starts the auto clock. Obviously none of this is necessary for saber.

Quoted for truth. Good idea.

[qatet]

I, too, love Don's idea about the timing to start and stop the timer.

Does anybody have any ideas for other was to stand up the machine? We've bought two to use for satellite classes (they both fit into the little black box for one of the SG11s), but I'm a bit worried about the repeated wear and tear of attaching, unattaching, and reattaching the aluminum stand. Seems like it will end up stripping down the screws pretty quickly, especially since the ends of the stand only line up with the holes when a bit of force is applied. Has anybody yet devised a compact stand, maybe clipping onto the bottom of the machine?

[Todd Brown]

I keep forgetting to answer the question about the cost of firmware updates.

For all rules changes and bug fixes, firmware updates will be free. For enhanced functionality, I haven't ruled out charging for firmware updates, but I'm going to make that call depending on (A) how much time I spend on the enhancements and (B) whether or not I think the enhancements are worth paying for. FYI, the enhancements I have in mind constitute features for individual training, and that's all I'm going to say for the moment.

Re: the stands. I hadn't thought that people would want to attach/detach the stands frequently, so I will give some thought to this problem. One person I talked to said they liked the portability, and they would probably put some foam in a case and just pack it in the foam. If you did that, you could cut a slit for the stand, and not have to take it down for transport. Just an idea for the interim.

Best,
Todd Brown

[CrazyLittle]

Originally Posted by Todd Brown

If a misplaced attack hits a button, well...there will be a time-space singularity that will destroy all life on this planet. Please utilize appropriate tip control when using Firefly.

How and how much money would be involved in repairing damaged switches?
Weapon strike is going happen eventually... regardless of how careful people are.

Originally Posted by Todd Brown

Extension lights will attach via the DB9 serial connector when they're available. Furthermore, I hope to make available a breakout box that will make it easy to attach homemade expansion lights, or off-the-shelf expansion lights from other vendors.

Does that mean that extension light controllers would require an RS232 serial controller, or do you have some way of toggling TTL on each pin for a TTL-relay circuit?

Originally Posted by Todd Brown

Currently, there is a IR detector for use with an IR (line-of-sight, like your TV remote) remote. I am also considering an RF option which would require two parts: the actual remote itself and a DB9 backshell which would contain the RF receiver.

With the IR remote, is there a way to uniquely pair the remote with the machine so that one remote does not interfere with its brother two pistes away? Would that feature be built into the RF remote?

Originally Posted by Todd Brown

I will endeavor to get some more representative photos of Firefly online.

Thank you. Please don't take my persistent badgering as anything personal, nor any kind of insult to your product. I'm very interested in watching its development, and perhaps purchasing one for the club I fence with. These are just important points that affect how/where I would be able to use them.

[Todd Brown]

Firmware updates that address bug fixes and firmware updates will be free of charge. I'd like to point out that you can do the firmware updates yourself: there will be an update utility you can download (the Windows version will come first, then Linux, then OSX). In other words, no swapping out of chips.

I may charge for firmware updates that enhance functionality, based on (A) how much effort I put into them and (B) whether the enhancements are valuable enough to charge for. FYI, the "enhancements" I have in mind are for individual training, and that's all I'm going to say about that for now.

I hadn't thought that people would want to attach/detach the stands frequently, so I will think on that problem. Someone approached me at the Portland NAC, and said they appreciated the compactness of the unit, and would probably put it in a carrying case with some foam padding. It would be easy enough to cut a slit in the foam padding to accommodate the stand so you wouldn't have to break it down for transport: this might be a good interim solution.

Re: the switches. I haven't given any thought to repairing broken switches, but I don't think it would be expensive. I can make them available online for you to buy if you're handy with a soldering iron. I'd probably price them at around a dollar. If you want to send the unit back for repair, it would cost you a little more, but we're talking in the $10 range. Again, I'm just throwing these numbers out there without any analysis, so take them for the ballpark figures that they are.

Re: extension lights. Currently, you will need an RS232 controller to run extension lights. I understand that this is beyond the resources of many DIY folks, so believe me when I say I am hot on the development of a breakout box that would make DIY extension lights very easy (i.e. TTL). You can expect news of this very soon.

Re: IR remotes. The IR remote will be very crude, so it will have no filtering to prevent it from activating a unit on another strip. That said, between directionality and range, this will probably not be too much of a problem, but only real-world testing will bear this through. When I introduce an RF remote, you will be able to key individual boxes to remote fobs and this will be a non-issue.

CrazyLittle, I did not take your questions as badgering; I appreciate your curiosity and interest in Firefly, and it's good to get intelligent questions.

Best,
Todd Brown
Firefly Fencing LLC

[jfarmer]

Originally Posted by Todd Brown

Re: IR remotes. The IR remote will be very crude, so it will have no filtering to prevent it from activating a unit on another strip. That said, between directionality and range, this will probably not be too much of a problem, but only real-world testing will bear this through. When I introduce an RF remote, you will be able to key individual boxes to remote fobs and this will be a non-issue.

You might look around a bit at some of the different chip sets for IR remotes and RF remotes. Some of them allow you to program the units to only work with a known remote, or one remote to be able to address multiple units. It's fairly new in the sound tech world for theatre & live sound. (Enter program code on remote & unit, then introduce them. Enter master program code into a remote & introduce it to several units.) the best example I can point you to that uses both IR and RF is a British wireless mic company, I believe their name is Delta Sound?

It's great for Theatre work. Put a bodypack & mic inside some talent's costume, then point the remote at them to turn it on/off, make adjustments, etc. Master Sound Engineer walks by with his remote & can control all of them...

[Todd Brown]

Yes, there are a lot of interesting IR chipsets out there, but that would require hardware changes, and hardware changes represent a lot of money, so that's not going to happen with the current edition. So for now at least people are going to have to live with range & directionality isolation.

I do plan on introducing a RF remote at some point, which will include the ability to pair remotes with receivers.

Originally Posted by jfarmer

You might look around a bit at some of the different chip sets for IR remotes and RF remotes. Some of them allow you to program the units to only work with a known remote, or one remote to be able to address multiple units. It's fairly new in the sound tech world for theatre & live sound. (Enter program code on remote & unit, then introduce them. Enter master program code into a remote & introduce it to several units.) the best example I can point you to that uses both IR and RF is a British wireless mic company, I believe their name is Delta Sound?

It's great for Theatre work. Put a bodypack & mic inside some talent's costume, then point the remote at them to turn it on/off, make adjustments, etc. Master Sound Engineer walks by with his remote & can control all of them...

[CrazyLittle]

Actually have you ever considered using a "selectable" code set for the IR remote? IE - build your remote to have a switch that toggles between code sets, and then program some method of "keying" which code set the machine will listen to. That way you can two machines together within visible range avoid conflicts by setting each one to a different remote code set.

[SJCFU#2]

I see that the programming cable has been added to the list of accessories now available. Will a basic IR remote be available any time soon?

It would be nice to be able to order everything at once.

[ddavis]

Our club just got one and I got a chance to fence with it tonight.

It's a nice little machine. I really like the auto-clock feature. With regular use, it should help me get a better feel for bout time. I also use it to remind me to take breaks when free fencing. Otherwise we tend to just run ourselves into the ground before we decide to stop. With the firefly, we get a reminder to take a break every three minutes!

[Catseye]

I'm very intrigued by this since we have one box at school that seems to hate sabre...I'm curious, would it be possible to create a sub $100 box if one were made without the Auto-Clock?

[Phrogger]

Our club will definitely be picking up one, possibly two of these boxes. The domestic-made boxes we are currently using have been *ahem* slightly less than reliable. Shipping them off for a timing upgrade and waiting months to get them back is also a downer, so I'm very excited about being able to upgrade via cable.

[Todd Brown]

Originally Posted by Catseye

I'm very intrigued by this since we have one box at school that seems to hate sabre...I'm curious, would it be possible to create a sub $100 box if one were made without the Auto-Clock?

Unfortunately not; not including a clock would shave a few dollars off of parts, but it would not contribute significantly to production costs. Most people don't realize the significance of non-parts costs: business licenses, non-recurring engineering costs (NREs), marketing, insurance, etc. My point is that shaving a few dollars off of parts is not going to significantly reduce the price of the whole unit.

Until fencing is as popular as say...basketball...I wouldn't hold your breath for a $100 scoring apparatus.

Best,
Todd Brown
Firefly Fencing LLC

[Todd Brown]

If you've tried to visit FireflyFencing.com lately, you'll know that the site is down. A transformer at the hosting datacenter caught fire yesterday causing all of the datacenter generators to be taken offline. There's no word yet on when the issue will be resolved. Fortunately, no one was injured in the fire.

In the meantime, if anyone has questions about Firefly Fencing products, please contact me through fencing.net as all of the fireflyfencing.com email addresses are also affected by the fire.

Best,
Todd Brown
Firefly Fencing LLC

[Todd Brown]

Our webshost has restored power, and FireflyFencing.com is back in business.

In other news: we're hard at work on the Firmware Update Utility and an IR remote control.

Best,
Todd Brown
Firefly Fencing LLC