Spainish Circle

[InFerrumVeritas]

Since it has nothing to do with modern fencing, I figured I'd post this here. Please move if necessary.

I was curious (admittedly after watching an old Highlander the Series rerun) about how the Spainish rapier circle with the different geometrical patterns was used and what the theory behind this was.

[mrbiggs]

There was a fairly in depth and interesting thread about this some time ago, with the resident classical (I use the term here very loosely and I do not know if they consider themselves as such, take it as "fencers who are conscious of the sport's history) fencers providing some interesting insights on the subject.

I haven't seen any of them post here recently, so that thread may be your best bet. I'll do a quick search for it, see if I can find anything.

[mrbiggs]

Think I found it:

Historical Fencing?

Not as in-depth as I remember, but some valuable information there, and like I said I don't think any of those guys post here anymore.

[fatfencer]

Spanish Circle, Mysterious Circle, Thibault's Circle all mean the same thing.

The idea is that you walk in a circle around your opponent. Generally your opponent is a person not familiar with this style as it was so 'secretive'

Generally that person will stay in the center until he gets frustrated and move forward in a linear attack.

The lines all over the inside of the circle are chords. When the person makes an attack you engage their blade, bind it with the quillions, usually in what we know as a circle 6 parry, and thrust closing the line all the while walking along the chord to evade their blade as added protection. Its a body evasion or elaborate esquive, really.

Now most people won't let you walk around them in a circle more than once but your arm and blade is truly meant to be a radii and they are the 'center of your world'. So you may only get along an arc or two until your opponent attempts to engage you. Once that happens, the circle practitioner will either change directions or lengthen the diameter of the circle by evading at an angle. Anything to frustrate the opponent until he overcommits.

The key is to keep a very extended arm using a light back-balanced cup hilt rapier. Then using another key, which they call "atajo" or 'touchsensitivity' they will immediately bind your blade in one of many ways without even thinking and thrust forward while walking along a chord, away from you.

This art is also called La Verdadera Destreza. Maestro Ramon Martinez and his wife teach their version which they cobbled together after some many years of study of various tomes, etc.

There are some videos and I did attend a few seminars.

The 2 keys to this are pretty simple:

1) The weapon does make a difference. It almost has to be a cuphilt rapier with large quillions that is extremely back heavy and tip light so you can hold those straight armed postures and parry-bind the way they do. The rule is once blalde contact occurs, your opponent should die INSTANTLY. They really emphasize that. Related to this is a rule that is in complete violation of sport fencing: "No se puede caminar la linea del diametro sin peligro" or one cannot walk the diameter of the circle without danger. Think of all the doubles that happen in epee and this statement bears true. In sport fencing we walk the center line all the time.

2) Circle and Chord walking: Part of the success of this method lies in the secrecy with which they guarded the training. if you saw this in action it was either because you were training it or someone was using it on you. De Grassi and other Italian schools were well published, not so here which is why its so tough to recreate it. In addition to 'atajo' you had to have the circle walking and the body evasion chord walking down pat. Otherwise it doesnt work well. this is a very fluid, snakelike art if done right.

Hope this helps,

FF

[rdg]

FF.

Excellent reply. It is one of the few long post I read through.

Sam

[Inquartata]

I don't recall anything in Thibault or the little I've been able to puzzle out of Carranza about "walk around your opponent in a circle".

The success of Spanish swordsmen probably had more to do with the immense amounts of practice necessary to master the system than with the actual system or the tools used.