Usfa Calls Off Election

[mfp]

Hmmn, reading this thread leads me to believe there are lot of parties interested in this topic who feel somehow aggrieved

The Election Committee shall [...] arbitrate, after notice and an opportunity to be heard, the grievances of any interested party concerning electoral procedures.

Also:

The proceedings of the Committee shall be open, except for deliberations in arbitration and consultations with counsel concerning legal matters within the protection of the attorney-client privilege.

[KD5MDK]

Unlike the USFA, FFC clearly did not engage legal counsel to ensure that all the T's were crossed

You mean to ensure T wasn't crossed?

[lewis]

Assuming that the election does not take place - what recourse does the membership have? What recourse do the fencers have? How does the usfa expect to get Olympians for 2012 when they are so messing up this year? Isn't there a duty to the future as well as the present?

Legally, well that remains to be seen. If the alternate slate does not have an effective binding arbitration agreement then they can sue. If they do have a binding arbitration agreement then haven't they fulfilled the requirements? It appears that people with actual knowledge of the facts and circumstances are quiet - which is a good idea. But it seems to me that if the usfa refuses to honor the binding arbitration then there is the right to sue. If they expect the arbitration to stick they have to allow the election - because without the right to run in the election the consideration for signing the contract (being able to run in the election) is missing so there is no agreement to arbitrate.

OK so now everyone knows how old I am - Paper Chase at work......

As a thought, selective enforcement of the rules is routinely used in legal circles to show discrimination.

[sabrelion]

You mean to ensure T wasn't crossed?

As my divorce lawyer always told me, one can never be too careful when crossing one's eyes on a legal document.

[KD5MDK]

You presume that just because they can sue that will be of benefit to them. I'm not convinced of that.

[oso97]

It appears that people with actual knowledge of the facts and circumstances are quiet - which is a good idea.

This is probably the most intelligent thing I've seen in this entire thread. Perhaps everyone should take a deep breath, consider their words, and limit speculation as to motives and conspiracy theories, until the situation runs its course, and actual facts are known.

[geofmclean]

It doesn't sound like you're an attorney to me. I'm not either, but I certainly don't see things as being the way you see them in the sentence I bolded.

No, I'm not an attorney. I work for the engineering department of a small city.

My point was based on the experience of seeing disputes on construction projects where a party has indicated acceptance of an item or work product without checking the original contract and then found it difficult or impossible to enforce the original agreement because of that acceptance. Even a verbal "looks good to me" by someone without proper authority can get an organization into trouble.

This is a different situation, of course, but a prompt rejection would have saved a lot of trouble by providing no grounds for dispute.

Everyone involved probably had the best of intentions and was trying to comply with the rules. However, this is going to be a contentious issue however it turns out.

[HDG]

Perhaps everyone should take a deep breath, consider their words, and limit speculation as to motives and conspiracy theories, until the situation runs its course, and actual facts are known.

I don't think that's allowed on the internet.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Unlike the USFA, FFC clearly did not engage legal counsel to ensure that all the T's were crossed

You mean to ensure T wasn't crossed?

Actually, I think "T" was plenty crossed.

However, it's now the 22nd. Do you know where your ElecComm grievance response is?

[Redblade]

This is probably the most intelligent thing I've seen in this entire thread. Perhaps everyone should take a deep breath, consider their words, and limit speculation as to motives and conspiracy theories, until the situation runs its course, and actual facts are known.

That's exactly what someone would say who's in on the conspiracy.
<-- paranoid spy gear

[KD5MDK]

Actually, I think "T" was plenty crossed.

However, it's now the 22nd. Do you know where your ElecComm grievance response is?

It wouldn't surprise me if the Elections Committee, the USFFC candidates and other interested parties are all going to be at the NAC this weekend and figured it would be cheaper to have their meetings face to face than on conference calls..

[tchwojko]

Any lawyers out there with an opinion?

For their hourly rate they'll have any opinion you want.

[KD5MDK]

This is a discussion among fencers. If you don't think enough attorney have weighted in, you haven't been counting.

[tchwojko]

And is it in anyone's experience that getting lawyers involved makes muddy situations clearer?

[JEC]

I don't believe that the NC slate is the true beneficiary of this mess. The true beneficiary is the old guard. If the NC slate is confirmed without election, their legitimacy would be questioned. They will be weaker than if elected (even with a narrow margin).

In regard to current USFA leadership, the apparent secrecy of the back-door dealings engineering at last minute to disqualify the FFC slate proves the urgent need of new leadership. Mr. Alperstein and Ms. Baumgart are disregarding the opinions expressed by 452 USFA members (including me), and are using a very lame excuse. Particularly as the arbitration agreement was not publicy available and was sent only to the NC slate by Mr. Alperstein.

At best, USFA will lose some money (elections + legal), but the potential worst is taking the NGB away from USFA, losing membership and having expensive legal fees.

As a member, my tool to express my opinion is my vote. If USFA deprives me from voting, I (and others) can deprive USFA from my (our) money.

[jjefferies]

This is probably the most intelligent thing I've seen in this entire thread. Perhaps everyone should take a deep breath, consider their words, and limit speculation as to motives and conspiracy theories, until the situation runs its course, and actual facts are known.

But wouldn't that be too late to influence the outcome? Oh Silly me.
But of course.

[gorgie101]

From JEC

Mr. Alperstein and Ms. Baumgart are disregarding the opinions expressed by 452 USFA members (including me), and are using a very lame excuse.

What I want to know is how many of those 452 member only signed the petition because they got something for signing it?

Just wondering....

[JEC]

But wouldn't that be too late to influence the outcome? Oh Silly me.
But of course.

If we do that, then, his opinion (a NC member) is the only one that matters (i.e.: NC slate is sworn in).

[epeeforlife]

From JEC

What I want to know is how many of those 452 member only signed the petition because they got something for signing it?

Just wondering....

Like a choice? An election? Or maybe a shaft!

[chefencer]

[Invokes Arthur Dent]

The Very Next Post

...

I just had to point out that this was a Very Amusing happenstance, or was it a conspiracy?!