"Crimped" Foil Points

[Eejit]

I've been experiencing a problem with my foil points lately that doesn't seem to appear much in fencing literature (and I include these forums) and that problem is of what I term "crimped" foil points. The symptoms of this problem is simply that the collar on the tip becomes stuck inside the barrel and requires significant force to dislodge. This causes all sorts of woes, from failing weights to producing random off-targets while on the strip. It's beginning to get on my nerves.

I have tried generously applying some WD-40, but that does not remove the problem. I also know that it's not a dirty barrel because the aforementioned step of greasing the point also cleans it. Sometimes swapping points will alleviate the problem, but most of the time is does not, and these swapped points soon also will start to exhibit the same malfunction.

My question is whether or not it is possible for the barrel to become sufficiently crimped that this would happen. Could it be my points getting bent out of shape? Also, would the cause of this crimping be due to fencing wear and tear or could it be some improper armoring practice of mine?

Any help I could get on this would be great; I'm awfully tired of it.

[CvilleFencer]

There are some key bits of information that are absent, such as exactly what type of points you are using, that would help a great deal.

If you are using German points then most likely the barrels are getting dented or deformed. You can use a mandrel to push them back into shape usually, but I would suggest moving to either the German "next gen" foil points (available from F.net and Absolute among others) or going to a stronger barrel design like the LP.

If you are using French, they are notorious for being very variable in their dimensions, even among the same brand/maker of French points. It could also be a dented barrel issue as well, but I would guess your tips are from one batch and your barrels are from another.

If you are using a different type of point, please let us know and we can try and troubleshoot from there.

[remise]

I have tried generously applying some WD-40, but that does not remove the problem. I also know that it's not a dirty barrel because the aforementioned step of greasing the point also cleans it. Sometimes swapping points will alleviate the problem, but most of the time is does not, and these swapped points soon also will start to exhibit the same malfunction.

That is the WORST thing you can do to your point. If you have to clean it, try using rubbing alcohol. WD-40 has a 'Cinderella' effect. Your point will seem to be fine, but it will gunk up very rapidly and misbehave. WD-40 actually ATTRACTS dirt in your tip.

Try cleaning your tips out with rubbing alcohol and see if that helps.

[Eejit]

There are some key bits of information that are absent, such as exactly what type of points you are using, that would help a great deal.

If you are using German points then most likely the barrels are getting dented or deformed. You can use a mandrel to push them back into shape usually, but I would suggest moving to either the German "next gen" foil points (available from F.net and Absolute among others) or going to a stronger barrel design like the LP.

If you are using French, they are notorious for being very variable in their dimensions, even among the same brand/maker of French points. It could also be a dented barrel issue as well, but I would guess your tips are from one batch and your barrels are from another.

If you are using a different type of point, please let us know and we can try and troubleshoot from there.

I'm using the German "Extra" type point manufactured by FWF as listed on Absolute. I quit using French points a few months into owning electric equipment. Hmm, thought I had included that bit of info, but I do miss things in my old age...

Could you give me more information about using a mandrel to reshape my barrels? I gave some thought to using a vice to reshape them, but that presented myriad shortcomings. Also, are there any practices I can adopt to help reduce the likelihood of deforming my barrels?

That is the WORST thing you can do to your point. If you have to clean it, try using rubbing alcohol. WD-40 has a 'Cinderella' effect. Your point will seem to be fine, but it will gunk up very rapidly and misbehave. WD-40 actually ATTRACTS dirt in your tip.

Try cleaning your tips out with rubbing alcohol and see if that helps.

Hmm, interesting. The armorer at my club has been WD40ing points for a while now and recommending the procedure to others. I will try giving it a go with some isopropyl and see if that helps more.

[brtech]

All fencing suppliers sell the mandrel. You place it in the barrel and pound it in with a hammer. Some armorers recommend light peening on the outside of the barrel with the mandrel all the way down. Then you have to take the mandrel out. Techniques for this step varies. You don't want to loosen the barrel.

My technique:

Sit on a chair. Place the foil barrel up. Hold it in place with your feet on the guard. Use a C-wrench on the flats of the mandrel. Twist clockwise while pulling out. Don't twist counterclockwise.

Clean the barrel with cotton swab soaked in alcohol! It's sure to be dirty after this maneuver.

[Zmiter]

Check the barrel. Are there dents or scratch on the surface? If "yes" you need a reaming/broach bit. All stars or Uhlman sale it for foil and epee.
Or find a dowel of proper diameter. Remove the tips. Grip the barrel in a vice. Hammer the reaming to the barrel very slightly. Turn the dowel left-right several times. Extract the dowel. Check your pin. If necessary repeat the procedure several times.

[twisterfencing]

Eejit,

The easyist fix for this is::::::quit perrying (spelling) with your tip! Use the blade, its less trouble.

Three ways to fix it:

1. Use a mandrel and beat out the dent in the barrel
2. Ream it out (4.5mm) die cutter (not recomended for younger armorers)
3. Take the entire tip off and replace it and rewire the weapon.

Gary Spruill

I've been experiencing a problem with my foil points lately that doesn't seem to appear much in fencing literature (and I include these forums) and that problem is of what I term "crimped" foil points. The symptoms of this problem is simply that the collar on the tip becomes stuck inside the barrel and requires significant force to dislodge. This causes all sorts of woes, from failing weights to producing random off-targets while on the strip. It's beginning to get on my nerves.

I have tried generously applying some WD-40, but that does not remove the problem. I also know that it's not a dirty barrel because the aforementioned step of greasing the point also cleans it. Sometimes swapping points will alleviate the problem, but most of the time is does not, and these swapped points soon also will start to exhibit the same malfunction.

My question is whether or not it is possible for the barrel to become sufficiently crimped that this would happen. Could it be my points getting bent out of shape? Also, would the cause of this crimping be due to fencing wear and tear or could it be some improper armoring practice of mine?

Any help I could get on this would be great; I'm awfully tired of it.

[sir alasdair]

I had an issue with this recently as well. But not for any expected reason. I purchased a new blade - a vniti while at the NAC E in Chicago. This was on Friday and I did not have the time, space, desire to do a blade wire, so I purchased one wired. It came with the FWF german tip, which is what I have on my other 2 nearly identical foils. The new weapon served as my "backup" at the NAC so I didn't use it there. The following week in practice, the tip got stuck in after an inadvertent floor touch. Later as I was attempting to diagnose the problem, I became convinced that I somehow misshaped the barrel when hitting the floor. I used a mandrel to correct this, but the tip continued to get stuck even after that. The mandrel rotated, entered, and exited the barrel with ease, so the barrel was no longer the issue. I began to look at the point, and upon closer examination noticed that there was a raised ridge of metal on the shaft portion of the point, just under the "head". Anytime the tip was completely compressed, the ridge would catch on the inside of the barrel causing it to get stuck. I switched points and the problem was fixed. I didn't make any big deal of it, but if there are others experiencing this problem, I wonder if there was a bad batch of these points. Essentially, the diameter of the shaft is not to spec all the way up. Perhaps the tool used to mill them became damaged or chipped at the corner. Has anyone else experienced this issue recently?

[Sinestra]

I had an issue with this recently as well. But not for any expected reason. I purchased a new blade - a vniti while at the NAC E in Chicago. This was on Friday and I did not have the time, space, desire to do a blade wire, so I purchased one wired. It came with the FWF german tip, which is what I have on my other 2 nearly identical foils. The new weapon served as my "backup" at the NAC so I didn't use it there. The following week in practice, the tip got stuck in after an inadvertent floor touch. Later as I was attempting to diagnose the problem, I became convinced that I somehow misshaped the barrel when hitting the floor. I used a mandrel to correct this, but the tip continued to get stuck even after that. The mandrel rotated, entered, and exited the barrel with ease, so the barrel was no longer the issue. I began to look at the point, and upon closer examination noticed that there was a raised ridge of metal on the shaft portion of the point, just under the "head". Anytime the tip was completely compressed, the ridge would catch on the inside of the barrel causing it to get stuck. I switched points and the problem was fixed. I didn't make any big deal of it, but if there are others experiencing this problem, I wonder if there was a bad batch of these points. Essentially, the diameter of the shaft is not to spec all the way up. Perhaps the tool used to mill them became damaged or chipped at the corner. Has anyone else experienced this issue recently?

I'm actually experiencing almost that exact issue right now--I haven't checked to see if there's any metal ridge affecting it, but no matter how often I clean the tip, or do any work on the point, I haven't been able to prevent it from getting stuck on random touches...I use the FWF points on all my weapons, but this is the first time I've experienced this problem. I'll check the tip on my vniti tomorrow and see if it's the same issue or not.