Junior Sectionals

[dadofbag]

Just curious, but is charging double the entry and registration - $130 - as a penalty for a late entry for a SN qualifier at a local club ethical and permissible in the eyes of the USFA, or can clubs charge whatever they like?

[DJ Apostrophe]

Considering that the late fee structure you mentioned is less than the national practice (triple fees) you probably won't get much sympathy from the national office.

Late fees exist for a multitude of reasons. And they have to be perjorative as otherwise, people think nothing of paying the late fee and thus defeating the purpose.

-w

[IHateMrPotatohead]

This is a Section qualifier? Yes. Many people do it. If you register for a National event late, it's actually TRIPLE.

[TBean]

That is pretty normal for most sections and qualifiers. If they did not do it, no one would register early and it would be very difficult to adequately staff the tournament.

As others have stated, registering late for a national tournament is triple the entry fees.

[dadofbag]

Sorry guys, I can understand the NAC fees, and mea culpa for inadvertently missing the deadline, but $130 as a punitive total for a local competition is a big financial output to some people these days.

[nahouw]

Sorry guys, I can understand the NAC fees, and mea culpa for inadvertently missing the deadline, but $130 as a punitive total for a local competition is a big financial output to some people these days.

A sectional qualifier is not just a local competition. You are lucky to have your sectional qualifier located close to you -- some people have to fly in order to get to their sectional qualifier.

[dadofbag]

A sectional qualifier is not just a local competition. You are lucky to have your sectional qualifier located close to you -- some people have to fly in order to get to their sectional qualifier.

In this case, 'Local' is used as a relative term in the comparative sense of traveling all over the country to NACs. I don't have any issue with paying a late fee for my own oversight, as long as it is not excessive. If the fee is not considered as such, which - judging by the responses posted - is the case, then my argument is moot and I thank you for your opinions.

[JEC]

A sectional qualifier is not just a local competition. You are lucky to have your sectional qualifier located close to you -- some people have to fly in order to get to their sectional qualifier.

This year in the Southwest Section, the tournament is in El Paso, a few hundredths of miles away from 90% of South Texas (San Antonio, Austin, and San Marcos), the closest division and definitely over a thousand miles for the poor guys in Ark-LA-Miss, Oklahoma or Louisiana. Attendance (by current registration) is limited as compared to prior sectionals such as those in the 3 central divisions in recent memory (i.e.; Houston, College Station, and Dallas).

[edew]

I'm suspecting there is more to the story than just a high fee for late entry. If so, please relate. If not, close this thread, as I think the answer from the peanut gallery is pretty clear.

[epeemike81]

This year in the Southwest Section, the tournament is in El Paso, a few hundredths of miles away from 90% of South Texas (San Antonio, Austin, and San Marcos)

Emphasis mine.

Apparently Texas is a lot smaller than I thought.

-m

[oso97]

This year in the Southwest Section, the tournament is in El Paso, a few hundredths of miles away from 90% of South Texas (San Antonio, Austin, and San Marcos), the closest division and definitely over a thousand miles for the poor guys in Ark-LA-Miss, Oklahoma or Louisiana. Attendance (by current registration) is limited as compared to prior sectionals such as those in the 3 central divisions in recent memory (i.e.; Houston, College Station, and Dallas).

*nods* Then again, its smaller when its in Oklahoma or Shreveport as well. But its not just location that affects turnout.

When I started fencing around here, Southwest Sectionals was one of the very few events guaranteed to be strong, well attended and (emphasis mine) well refereed (Poor refereeing can ruin a foil or sabre tournament a LOT faster than it can an epee tournament. Which should not be interpreted to mean that I think that any trained monkey can referee epee). And it was always in Waco, San Marcos or College Station. Now, with the SSCC, we have a broader base of high level tournaments, more geographically dispersed and throughout the season, and people don't just go to Sectionals for the experience of fencing in a good tournament - we have many other, much more accessible opportunities for that! They go to try to qualify, which brings down the number of people significantly. Even when it was in Dallas last year, or Houston a couple of years before that it was not exactly busting at the seams. In addition, the location of Summer Nationals and the removal of the DivII/DivIII qualifying path has had a lot to do with turnout.

Next season, Summer Nationals is in DFW, and there's a strong possibility that the DivII/DivIII qualifying path at Sectionals might be reinstated (factors causing an increase in Southwest Sectionals turnout). But, the Louisiana Division is up for hosting in the rotation (which will depress it slightly).

Honestly? I've no problem, in principle, with late fees that are designed to get people to commit early. I think a late fee roughly half again of the price for one weapon is appropriate and an on-site registration fee of double the price for regular registration is not going over the top either (although, when I run tournaments, I structure things a little differently). Having run the tournament several times, I can vouch for how difficult properly staffing Sectionals can be. What I don't like is publishing a day schedule only and not even giving a rough idea of the times that the events will be held (which ones the organizers are going to start first). That is taking "efficiency" to the extreme - it IS possible to make fairly reasonable predictions and build in worst case scenarios into your schedule.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

The organizers really don't care if you cannot afford to pay the fee because you forgot to register on time.

Besides that, extra fees go back into the cadre, the equipment and the organization. It supports the entire process, which is GOOD.

[catwood1]

1) I think double fees is totally reasonable considering the circumstances.

2) If you think of it in comparison to the lengths most people have to go to for a sectional, its not really that bad. Id have to get a flight to my sectionals. Ah, if only I were still a fencer, then maybe I would go...

[keith]

1) I think double fees is totally reasonable considering the circumstances.

2) If you think of it in comparison to the lengths most people have to go to for a sectional, its not really that bad. Id have to get a flight to my sectionals. Ah, if only I were still a fencer, then maybe I would go...

Surely sectionals should be an inverse fee structure - no surcharge for U's then a scale as one ascends up to A's with national points.

[HDG]

Surely sectionals should be an inverse fee structure - no surcharge for U's then a scale as one ascends up to A's with national points.

I think the scale should be based on the desirability of the location...

[oso97]

I think the scale should be based on the desirability of the location...

To whom and based upon what metric?

[HDG]

To whom and based upon what metric?

To me, based upon my own quixotic and changing preferences.