How do Qualifiers Work

[teacup]

I think the question actually had to do with the fact that not all Vets can fence in Div II/III Qualifiers.
Basically, Vets who are A's or B's have to qualify for Nationals by fencing in a NAC (the rule says "any NAC" so I assume it means not just a Veterans' NAC), or in their Sectional qualifier.
(of course, if you're a C or below in your second or third weapon, you can qualify for THAT one at your Divusion's II/III quals)

Having a local divisional qualifier for C & below vets while B & above vets have to go to a sectional qualifier, which may incur travel, does not seem quite fair to me. Especially when some weapons have more B & above fencers than other weapons.

Don't you think parents and fencers would complain if C & below juniors had a local qualifier and B & above juniors had to travel to section qualifiers?

Take the case of two 41 year old men's epee fencers living in San Jose who want to go to Summer Nationals for vets events. One a B and one a U, neither attended a Vet's NAC this season. To qualify the U fencer shows up at the local Div II/III division qualifier while the B fencer has to travel to Southern California to fence in the section qualifier.

My point is, in the above case, why should the stronger fencer have to incur travel expenses to qualify for a local Summer Nationals while the weaker fencer does not? Remember neither has to place, just show up at their respective qualifiers.

(This doesn't help raise the calibre of the Summer Nationals Vets event either.)

[KD5MDK]

Note that people seem to be interpreting that the Vet must fence in A qualifier or A NAC, not necessarily in their age group or weapon.* If the 41 year old wants to fence Vets at Summer Nationals, is not a C or below in ANY weapon, and hasn't fenced in any NACs, then he's out of luck.

* I'm not sure if this is national policy or not, but it seems a plausible reading of the Handbook.

[HDG]

Note that people seem to be interpreting that the Vet must fence in A qualifier or A NAC, not necessarily in their age group or weapon.* If the 41 year old wants to fence Vets at Summer Nationals, is not a C or below in ANY weapon, and hasn't fenced in any NACs, then he's out of luck.

* I'm not sure if this is national policy or not, but it seems a plausible reading of the Handbook.

That's how I was reading it, but was shot down on the previous page.

[KD5MDK]

In this thread? I don't see anyone but teacup saying differently.

[oiuyt]

Heh. For Y10 at Summer Nationals qualifying for the U19 event is a qualification path but "merely" qualifying for the U16 event isn't.

-B

[teacup]

Note that people seem to be interpreting that the Vet must fence in A qualifier or A NAC, not necessarily in their age group or weapon.* If the 41 year old wants to fence Vets at Summer Nationals, is not a C or below in ANY weapon, and hasn't fenced in any NACs, then he's out of luck.

* I'm not sure if this is national policy or not, but it seems a plausible reading of the Handbook.

I think the question actually had to do with the fact that not all Vets can fence in Div II/III Qualifiers.
Basically, Vets who are A's or B's have to qualify for Nationals by fencing in a NAC (the rule says "any NAC" so I assume it means not just a Veterans' NAC), or in their Sectional qualifier.
(of course, if you're a C or below in your second or third weapon, you can qualify for THAT one at your Divusion's II/III quals)

Isn't that what wbowman is also saying? In order for a B & above veteran to qualify they must attend an NAC or sectional qualifier while C & belows qualify locally?

Now maybe the handbook is stating that to qualify for ANY veteran's SN event, the veteran just has to fence in ANY divisional C and under event. Therefore, yes, most veterans are not B and above in all three weapons but how many single weapon B & above veterans are willing or want to fence another weapon they perhaps have NEVER fenced or have equipment for, to qualify?

Doesn't this seem a bit odd, that the higher ranked fencer who doesn't want to fence another weapon, has one fewer chance to qualify and may have to travel compared to a U? How does this raise the calibre of veteran fencing at the championships?

If I am reading this incorrectly, my apologies.

[Mr Epee]

I don't know how this works, but I really hope we get it figured out soon.

The last thing the USFA needs is an AARP rep showing up in Colorado Springs with an angry mob of confused old people. AARP owns.

[oso97]

Heh. For Y10 at Summer Nationals qualifying for the U19 event is a qualification path but "merely" qualifying for the U16 event isn't.

-B

What? I missed THAT one... Where is it?

Of course, there's no way a Y10 could fence in a U19, without being on the Cadet point standings. And if he's on those, he's going to be qualified for U16, right?

[oiuyt]

What? I missed THAT one... Where is it?

Of course, there's no way a Y10 could fence in a U19, without being on the Cadet point standings. And if he's on those, he's going to be qualified for U16, right?

Where else?

YOUTH-10 Tournament - Fencers must meet age eligibility above AND
• Fence in one Regional Youth Circuit or one Super Youth Circuit or NAC Youth in the current season in the age and weapon category (categories) in which fencer requests entry acceptance OR
• Qualify for U19 event OR
• Be on the Youth 10 national point standings after the April NAC

Having U16 points, and therefore being eligible for the U19 event isn't sufficient, the Y10 athlete must also qualify for the U19 to fulfill that path.

-B

[teacup]

Another qualifying path that I know has been debated is qualifying for U16 doesn't flow down to Y14.

I have seen a situation where there were 12 fencers in the Y14 qualifier; the two fencers who tied for third had to fence off, the one who lost didn't qualify yet that same fencer qualified for U16 the same day.

[oiuyt]

Another qualifying path that I know has been debated is qualifying for U16 doesn't flow down to Y14.

Right, but the interesting point here is that we DO have a trickle-down situation, merely one that by-passes the three intervening age categories.

Whether we should have trickle-down or not is a debateable subject. This is an example of where we have it, but done very poorly.

-B

[teacup]

Okay, here is another example.

Three fencers from a small division show up and all will qualify. 12 fencers from a large division show up and not only do only 3 qualify but the two who tie have to fence off.

Shouldn't it be something like this?

1 - 3, 1 qualifies
4 - 8, 2 qualify
9 - 16, 4 qualify
17 - 20, 5 qualify, etc.

Anything so the two who tie don't have to fence off and three fencers who just show up don't automatically qualify?

[KD5MDK]

I don't think fence offs are so bad as that.

[teacup]

I don't think fence offs are so bad as that.

Maybe not but tell that to a 14 year old who loses 15-14 in a fence off for third, when she knows a fencer at the same club but belongs to a different division that just had to show up to qualify.

[HDG]

Maybe not but tell that to a 14 year old who loses 15-14 in a fence off for third, when she knows a fencer at the same club but belongs to a different division that just had to show up to qualify.

Good preparation for the series of shaftings that is life...

[InFerrumVeritas]

I am always surprised when a seemingly simple question turns into this.