Cervical Discectomy

[wolfercdat]

I'm curious to know if there is anyone out there who has had or knows someone in their club who has undergone a cervical discectomy and fusion for a herniated disc (actually in my case it's two) and continued fencing afterward. I enjoy epee fencing but only for recreation and the awesome workout it provides and would like to continue it once I have fully healed. I've never gotten involved with "serious" competitive fencing and don't see that as something I would ever really want to do. My competitions have been limited to "friendly" bouts between fellow members of a club. Unfortunately, my surgeon knows nothing about fencing except to ask "isn't that where you stab each other with swords!" So I'm trying to find anyone else who may be familiar with whether it's possible to fence after having this type of surgery. Thanks

[arc]

I'm curious to know if there is anyone out there who has had or knows someone in their club who has undergone a cervical discectomy and fusion for a herniated disc (actually in my case it's two) and continued fencing afterward. I enjoy epee fencing but only for recreation and the awesome workout it provides and would like to continue it once I have fully healed. I've never gotten involved with "serious" competitive fencing and don't see that as something I would ever really want to do. My competitions have been limited to "friendly" bouts between fellow members of a club. Unfortunately, my surgeon knows nothing about fencing except to ask "isn't that where you stab each other with swords!" So I'm trying to find anyone else who may be familiar with whether it's possible to fence after having this type of surgery. Thanks

I haven't undergone a cervical discectomy, but I *have* undergone a partial lumbar discectomy at L5-S1, and I have continued fencing. At the same time, I also had to have repairs to my right wrist (ulnar styloid process fractured off, so stuff had to be tied back to the ulna), with all of the injuries the result of an automobile accident.

I had renewed my C in epee right before the accident, and after two years of recovery (including several rounds of physical therapy), and a long time of taking it as easy as possible, I managed to get back in the saddle again, although fencing hard or in competition tends to leave me in pain for a couple of days (but getting better all the time). Good enough to the point that I did okay (for my rating) at the Richmond NAC, and managed to renew my C again in January. (Well, it was going fine until I got hit head on in another auto accident. Sometimes it doesn't pay to chew through the leather straps in the morning, as the saying goes ...)

Long & short of it is, it is very possible to continue fencing after back surgery. It'll take you time to heal up, and particularly in the case of total discectomy & fusion, I wouldn't recommend pushing anything until you're completely healed; do the physical therapy, if prescribed, and just pace yourself getting back in to fencing.

[wolfercdat]

Thank you so much for the information. When my surgeon mentioned that I would be able to do everything I've always done, he also jokingly (but seriously) commented that he always recommends folks avoid football since getting hit in the head by a lineman was not a good thing. I immediately thought about the fact that the head is a valid target in epee, hence my question to him about continuing the sport....at which time I got the puzzled question about "swords". I hoped I would find a more knowledgeable person through this forum who has "been there, done that". Thanks again.

[crquack]

Can you rotate your head? Can you look down the piste with your body bladed at 45 degrees (give or take)?

[Phantom5588]

I've dealt more with the herniation of lumbar disks, but have you talked to your doctor about cortisone injections? Granted having the discectomy would probably be a better long term solution...but if it's just chronic pain that you're dealing with, cortisone injections are a quick fix that may be more convenient. Eh, I suppose your doctor knows best.

Personally, I have 3 herniated lumbar disks and that limits the amount of fleching I can do, and although fleching is a magical experience (especially when done right), I can learn to live without it. What sort of limitations are you experiencing with your cervical herniations? Maybe talk to you surgeon or PT about possible limitations in range of motion resulting from the surgery as compared to whatever you have now.

[wolfercdat]

I'm not very good at posting replies but I'll try since you all have been so helpful.

Can you rotate your head? Can you look down the piste with your body bladed at 45 degrees (give or take)? Yes to both questions, though turning my head a significantly over my right shoulder really starts to hurt my right arm and causes it to begin tingling more and going more weak.

I've thought about the cortisone shots but because I've got both numbness (at times) and at times, significant weakness we're thinking it's better to get this over with now. I'm lucky in that I've always been ambidextrous so when my right arm starts to hurt to much or gripping the epee is difficult I switch to my left hand where I have no problems at all. As I mentioned in my first post, I'm not a good fencer since it's still very new, but I just love it and don't want to stop.

[crquack]

It seems to me that there are several issues:

1) Is your current disability severe enough to impair your fencing skills? I get a sense that the answer is no.
2) What are the reasons to contemplate surgery? Are your other symptoms severe enough for this? Remember that no surgery is perfect and like any other treatment has side effects.
3) What improvement can you expect following the surgery? Is there going to be pain relief at the expense of other things, e.g. your head mobility (I suspect this is more likely with cervical fusion rather than discectomy but still...)
4) Is it going to be safe for you to fence after the surgery? How much recovery will you need before you are allowed to fence? How much skill/fitness are you going to lose in this period (the older you are the more significant this is).
5) Would simply going lefty solve all your problems?

Thee is no substitute for a frank and detailed discussion with your neurosurgeon. What is his record, BTW?

My *personal* credo is to avoid any surgery that is not absolutely necessary. However, cortisone injections tend to be of limited benefit and can be repeated only so often.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

[counterattack]

Hey there,
I had a Cervical endoscopic discectomy at C6-C7 in 2004. I did not have the fusion because fusions are (in my opinion and the opinion of many surgeons) to be avoided. I had 80% paralysis in my left triceps, severe burning in my left forearm and hand, and numbness of my left hand middle finger. If you have decent insurance or some other means, send your films to Dr. Stanton Schiffer (drschiffer.com). I have had excellent results and have been fencing competitively since three months after the surgery. My neck is NOT 100% and never will be. There is no such thing as fixing the spine, you just hope to get it functional. I get stiff necks pretty easily, and try to never lift heavy objects; Dr. Schiffer says never more than 30 pounds, but I have violated that many times, but am still very careful about what I lift and how.

I practice often and I practice hard. Since the surgery I have re-earned my A many times and have made top-32 in Men's Epee at a NAC, and I do not have a passive fencing style. So you can do it, depending on how bad your starting is. I was herniated at C6-C7, and badly bulging at C5-C6 and C4-C5. Nothing was done at any level other than C6-C7. I also have spurs at that level.

Check out Dr. Schiffer's site

Good luck! Neck injuries suck.

[counterattack]

I should mention that my gp and the surgeon he sent me to absolutely insisted that I had no option other than fusion. They were wrong. My procedure was done basically with a thick needle inserted from the front of the neck under active fluoroscopy. I walked out of the place under my own power. I had use of my arm within a few days, and was back to 95% within 3 months. I am left handed and my damage was to the left side. I still have a numb middle finger, but what can you do?

Seriously try everything to avoid a fusion. The success rate for cervical fusions is too low, and the benefits of success aren't that high. There are some East Coast doctors that do similar procedures (though only a handful in the whole country) if travel is an issue.

[dsapery]

I'm curious to know if there is anyone out there who has had or knows someone in their club who has undergone a cervical discectomy and fusion for a herniated disc (actually in my case it's two) and continued fencing afterward. I enjoy epee fencing but only for recreation and the awesome workout it provides and would like to continue it once I have fully healed. I've never gotten involved with "serious" competitive fencing and don't see that as something I would ever really want to do. My competitions have been limited to "friendly" bouts between fellow members of a club. Unfortunately, my surgeon knows nothing about fencing except to ask "isn't that where you stab each other with swords!" So I'm trying to find anyone else who may be familiar with whether it's possible to fence after having this type of surgery. Thanks

I had a C3/4 discectomy with fusion in 1996. With any fusion, there is a certain loss of range of motion (ROM), but with a single-level fusion the loss is typically not even noticed. The ROM that you lose is stuff that you don't (or can't) use in the first place.

When you start getting into multi-level fusions, then you do start dealing with noticeable loss of ROM.

Even after my surgery, I'm still fencing at a club that's more social than competitive. I fence in DV2/3/VET NAC's. I do, however, have a persistent "stiff neck" when I wake up each morning. But for fencing, I haven't encountered any contraindications.

[counterattack]

I had a C3/4 discectomy with fusion in 1996. With any fusion, there is a certain loss of range of motion (ROM), but with a single-level fusion the loss is typically not even noticed. The ROM that you lose is stuff that you don't (or can't) use in the first place.
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Yeah. It was his statement "two in my case" that makes a fusion seem like a poor choice if he intends to keep active. I have one herniated level and the two above severely bulging. If I got the herniated level fused, the level below (just fine) and the level above (hanging by a thread) would pick up the extra strain. I would soon be fusing the level above... and so on. If you want to stay active and you have multiple injured levels you really need to avoid a fusion unless you have instability or are at risk for serious permanent nerve damage. I am not a doctor, of course, but I have had a lot of incentive (like you all I am sure) to learn a lot about the C-spine.