Pros and Cons of Zivkovic Pistol Grips

[ChivNick]

I wanted to do a study of one type of pistol grip and whether majority dislike it, like it, or are mixed evenly. The grip being judged? The Zivkovic Pistol Grips, letters B through Z.

I have a Z grip on my foil and I personally love it, yet majority of the fencers around me dislike all of the zivkovic grips, I've found only a few who are ok with it or like them. I want to know what people on here think of them. By all means list all the pros and cons you have with them and then which side you settle with, prefer, dislike, or on the fence. Thanks for all your feedback.

[Welted 24/7]

I used to have the Z2 and the K-type ones. They weren't BAD grips, but they didn't really add anything special to my fencing that made them worth going out of my way to get, and not really worth the extra few bucks. Also, they're brittle, or they were when I was still doing foil. I accidentally dropped a foil once, and the top prong on the grip snapped clean off.

I guess you can mark me down on the "dislike" side. They're more expensive for no real upgrade in terms of performance or comfort, and for as easily as they break, that's a particularly large strike against them.

[jmos58]

I wanted to do a study of one type of pistol grip and whether majority dislike it, like it, or are mixed evenly. The grip being judged? The Zivkovic Pistol Grips, letters B through Z.

I have a Z grip on my foil and I personally love it, yet majority of the fencers around me dislike all of the zivkovic grips, I've found only a few who are ok with it or like them. I want to know what people on here think of them. By all means list all the pros and cons you have with them and then which side you settle with, prefer, dislike, or on the fence. Thanks for all your feedback.

Guy in my club can't use anything but Zivkovic, literally, his hand cramps up real bad if he uses anything else. It's like a crack addiction to him. Personally I think they're ok, but not my favorate, I'll only use them if I have to

[IvorDarcy]

I use BIII's on my epees. They are comfortable and you can bend your wrist 90 degrees without the "prong" digging into your wrist. I have no idea about the brittleness of them as I have never dropped a weapon in almost 30 years of fencing. The only downside I see is that they are slippy if you don't have a glove with good grip.

[ChivNick]

Thanks for all your feedback, hopefully more will answer and we can get a really good discussion going on this grip, maybe even expand to other grips.

[Craig]

Moving to armory

[FusionWhite]

I have a Z and love it. I dont use it on my primary weapon but I use it at practice. Its very comfortable.

[remise]

Guy in my club can't use anything but Zivkovic, literally, his hand cramps up real bad if he uses anything else.

Sounds like he may have arthritis, also. I use the "B"'s, although my hand is small. *Con* with the "B" - it's heavy. And yes, it's brittle. Don't drop them and don't kick them around. *Pro* with the "B" - you won't get a hand cramp using it - no matter how hard you squeeze. Plus, the sheer bulk of it forces the user to move the blade with the fingers and not the wrist, as other grips allow. Once the "B" is mastered, you can have some pretty deadly point control.

[ACrimsonRapier]

I have no idea about the brittleness of them as I have never dropped a weapon in almost 30 years of fencing.

That seems almost impossible. :X At least in foil. Dunno about epee.

Anyway, I used a Ziv KII when I first started and thought it was fantastic. I got to pick an odd color for it.

Then I switched to a much better coach and he suggested a vis. because he said you could feel it better. And that was the end of my Ziv. =X It's true, though. My hand doesn't mold to the Ziv as well as a vis, and my ring finger was left in an awkward position.

The groovings on the Ziv were also pretty bad. They'd work through the glove and rub into my finger pretty bad, so that would get torn up. It made me want to use my hand and wrist more than my fingers. I've randomly tested it out a couple times since I've used the vis, and I couldn't imagine going back permanently. There's a lot less contorl in it.

At least, for me.

[PatrickPFC]

I use the ZII, and love it. I now have them on all my foils. The biggest think with these grips, is that they do not let you hold them like a fist. I find that with a vis or Belgium they make you hold it like a fist when you hand is tired, and your point control drops.

[Shi no Tenshi]

I use a B for both foil and epee, and the weight really doesn't bother me at all. I am a large, tall guy, with fairly strong forearms, and even after a full day, I don't feel any fatigue from it really. I love the way it feels in my hand. My only real complaint with it is that the groove on the bottom of my middle finger needs to be ground down a bit, as I have damaged that nail currently from the way it rubs on the finger during fencing.

Other than that, I love my grips.

[spinner]

I use the G on my epees and absolutely love them. I find I can hold the G very lightly with just my index finger and thumb while the other three fingers lightly rest in the very deep groves. There is a substantial space between the center of my palm and the grip. I find this technique allows me to fence with a very relaxed hand with my index finger and thumb doing most of the work.

I like how the short but wide piece extending from the back of the grip allows me to severely angle the grip at close distance.

Some of the insulated Zivs can be a bit slippery, but I find that many visconte's share this trait. This is less true with the G's, and the non-insulated G is not slippery at all.

Some of the larger Zivs are a bit heavy compared to standard visconte's. I find this weight balances with an epee very well. I haven't fenced with Ziv's much with foil so I'm not sure it this would be an issue with that weapon.

My daughter tried quite a few different visconte style grips and settled on the GII. It was the only grip that didn't make her hand cramp. (I guess this G thing runs in the family).

[ChivNick]

Seems most who like this grip use it because of Arthritis or just to avoid hand cramps :-P and yea I agree that most grips are rather heavy but those grips they state on their site are made more for epee, they make lighter versions for foils which they also state on their site.

[IvorDarcy]

Crimson. Might sound impossible but it is indeed true. I have never dropped a weapon or had one knocked out of my grasp. I take good care of all of my equipment and still use 3 foils that I have had for 25 years (yes, original blades still on them).

[jmos58]

Sounds like he may have arthritis, also. I use the "B"'s, although my hand is small. *Con* with the "B" - it's heavy. And yes, it's brittle. Don't drop them and don't kick them around. *Pro* with the "B" - you won't get a hand cramp using it - no matter how hard you squeeze. Plus, the sheer bulk of it forces the user to move the blade with the fingers and not the wrist, as other grips allow. Once the "B" is mastered, you can have some pretty deadly point control.

Now why havn't I thought of that? Thanks, I'll pass that on to him.

[Nolano]

I like the feel of the B, but as someone with one pointed out to me this weekend, it's difficult to get much angulation on it. It's excellent for in line attacks and such, but just trying it I noticed I had some trouble getting good angled attacks in.

[damianip]

I'm not much on ortho grips, but my foils have Z grips on them, and I just recently bought back my one pistol gripped epee which I sold last year. The foils don't get much use any more.

The pistol epee has a Z on it also. I miss having it as a French Grip backup.

The reason: at this past weekend's Div II qualifier, I was cruising along in my pool (about to win my third bout to go 3-1) when my opponent (good friend and clubmate) hit me so hard in the hand as I was flicking (got me a single light though, BTW) that he may have broken some bones.

I managed to get out of that bout, but I could barely hold my weapon after that. I don't know if the pistol would have helped me get any wins, but it wouldn't have been so painful to continue if nothing else. I tried borrowing a couple of Russian gripped weapons but they didn't feel any better than the French.

The nice thing about the Z is that, for me at least, you barely have to grip it. It lays very nicely in the hand. The balance on the epee is a little weird, but I can deal with that. I would liked to have had that weapon with me last Saturday.

I recently tried a B grip on an epee and found it to be very nice also with very good balance.

Paolo

[Wingz240]

I like the feel of the B, but as someone with one pointed out to me this weekend, it's difficult to get much angulation on it. It's excellent for in line attacks and such, but just trying it I noticed I had some trouble getting good angled attacks in.

I don't quite understand how a grip, especially between a B and a visconti, could affect angulation. I thought angulation was purely determined by the arm/wrist position and perhaps the tang bend. Could you please clarify?

[Shi no Tenshi]

I like the feel of the B, but as someone with one pointed out to me this weekend, it's difficult to get much angulation on it. It's excellent for in line attacks and such, but just trying it I noticed I had some trouble getting good angled attacks in.

I tend to do a lot of angled attacks, and only use Zivkovic B's. What problem are you having?

[ACrimsonRapier]

Crimson. Might sound impossible but it is indeed true. I have never dropped a weapon or had one knocked out of my grasp. I take good care of all of my equipment and still use 3 foils that I have had for 25 years (yes, original blades still on them).

I sort of feel like you can't be fencing very aggressively, then. There are times where it's to my and my opponents benefit if I release the foil. Like, so my wrist doesn't snap, or so my blade doesn't snap. But maybe you weren't counting this in the "dropped" category? If you were, that's . . . pretty impressive, I guess? o_o