Getting on the U.S. National Team

[ToucheVerte]

Here is my impression - tell me if I am way off base:

In addition to being talented, in order to get on the National Team for say the World Championships, you have to have a parent or benefactor with disposable capital and lots of vacation time, say about $40-50K per year (and maybe 6-8 weeks of time off), to pay for coaches, clubs, influence, international and national travel, and equipment.

What am I missing?

[JEC]

Talent, time and money are needed. But perseverance to train hard (beyond your lesson) is more critical. Are you going to run your 5 miles despite the rain? You also need willingness to move to a place where the environment is competitive for your development. It is also another requirement.

I met Mo and her family in '99. My kids were in the same club than hers. I have a picture from SN '00 of the team together. They moved from our club (outstanding foil and epee) because of Saber. Here in South TX, we had a talented girl that found her passion in Saber. In that weapon, we are unfortunately way behind Epee. Her parents moved to Oregon to find the level of competition and coaching needed for her development.

[keith]

what point are you trying to make?

If you feel that this is unfair on some fencers I suggest you track down several major sponsors and persuade them to cough up the necessary funds to support athlete development.

[ToucheVerte]

what point are you trying to make?

If you feel that this is unfair on some fencers I suggest you track down several major sponsors and persuade them to cough up the necessary funds to support athlete development.

I think that we have established that the necessary investment, at least without sponsorship, is well beyond the reach of many middle class Americans, especially in today's economy. So I am thinking that there is probably a large group of highly motivated and talented fencers out there who will never make the team.

Could you elaborate on the sponsorship part? I am aware of the Westbrook Foundation and perhaps there are others. Is there some sort of resource guide for these Foundations and their eligibility requirements?

Also, are some of the top fencers today actually subsidized by corporate America? Where do you cross the line between amateurism and professionalism, if this is even an issue in American fencing?

[sheck]

I think that we have established that the necessary investment, at least without sponsorship, is well beyond the reach of many middle class Americans, especially in today's economy. So I am thinking that there is probably a large group of highly motivated and talented fencers out there who will never make the team.

Could you elaborate on the sponsorship part? I am aware of the Westbrook Foundation and perhaps there are others. Is there some sort of resource guide for these Foundations and their eligibility requirements?

Also, are some of the top fencers today actually subsidized by corporate America? Where do you cross the line between amateurism and professionalism, if this is even an issue in American fencing?

You can't make the teams without going to WCs. The WCs are mostly in East / West Europe. There has to be some type of sponsorship / assistance. KS (PWF, USFA HP Funds, Private Sponsorship, USOC Job Program,...) is still out there so it can be done but it isn't a easy go even with the backing.

[Greybeard]

I just offer opponents a shiny new dollar if they lose to me.

[keith]

So I am thinking that there is probably a large group of highly motivated and talented fencers out there who will never make the team.

True for any sport.

Even those better funded, and more visible. Success has both a financial and opportunity cost....

[Redblade]

Here is my impression - tell me if I am way off base:

In addition to being talented, in order to get on the National Team for say the World Championships, you have to have a parent or benefactor with disposable capital and lots of vacation time, say about $40-50K per year (and maybe 6-8 weeks of time off), to pay for coaches, clubs, influence, international and national travel, and equipment.

What am I missing?

Comfortable shoes.

[ToucheVerte]

You can't make the teams without going to WCs. The WCs are mostly in East / West Europe. There has to be some type of sponsorship / assistance. KS (PWF, USFA HP Funds, Private Sponsorship, USOC Job Program,...) is still out there so it can be done but it isn't a easy go even with the backing.

Thank you, sheck, for the very helpful response.

[teacup]

You can't make the teams without going to WCs. The WCs are mostly in East / West Europe. There has to be some type of sponsorship / assistance. KS (PWF, USFA HP Funds, Private Sponsorship, USOC Job Program,...) is still out there so it can be done but it isn't a easy go even with the backing.

There may be problems for potential and current NCAA athletes in accepting corporate sponsorship.

[sheck]

There may be problems for potential and current NCAA athletes in accepting corporate sponsorship.

Of course but last time I checked not all US Senior Team fencers are in high school or college. KS = Keeth Smart.

[teacup]

Of course but last time I checked not all US Senior Team fencers are in high school or college. KS = Keeth Smart.

True, but there are college and high school students on the senior teams.

Most fencers at the elite level start to fence before they are adults and therefore have been competing and traveling while students. It would be nice if the NCAA would allow them to fund their fencing careers with outside donations and corporate sponsorships.

Even the Olympics is open to professional athletes.

Another thing that is difficult for US athletes which athletes from many other countries do not have to worry about, is the US health insurance system which is tied to employment. While the USFA does offer some health insurance, it is only open to a few highly ranked fencers. (Then there is the fear of falling in ranking so an athlete looses their coverage.)

I am sure that individual coverage for a competing adult athlete traveling all over the world wouldn't be cheap, if they could even find coverage.

[sheck]

True, but there are college and high school students on the senior teams.

Most fencers at the elite level start to fence before they are adults and therefore have been competing and traveling while students.

If you only read this board you would think they all are.

Yes so they have to meet NCAA regulations if they choose that route.

[AndrewH]

Regarding the conflicts between remaining amateur for NCAA purposes and the necessity of receiving support for Olympic competition:

What about gymnastics, a sport where athletes reach their prime often before college? Do gymnasts have to make a choice between going to the Olympics or competing for their college?

I have no idea really so maybe there's someone out there with the answers. Maybe the explanation holds some value for fencers with the same conflict.

[sheck]

Regarding the conflicts between remaining amateur for NCAA purposes and the necessity of receiving support for Olympic competition:

What about gymnastics, a sport where athletes reach their prime often before college? Do gymnasts have to make a choice between going to the Olympics or competing for their college?

I have no idea really so maybe there's someone out there with the answers. Maybe the explanation holds some value for fencers with the same conflict.

D. Dawes is a good example. She attended and graduated from UMCP but was not on the gymnastic team. I would guess is she received sponsorship along the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Dawes

[jjefferies]

Here is my impression - tell me if I am way off base:
In addition to being talented, in order to get on the National Team for say the World Championships, you have to have a parent or benefactor with disposable capital and lots of vacation time, say about $40-50K per year (and maybe 6-8 weeks of time off), to pay for coaches, clubs, influence, international and national travel, and equipment.
What am I missing?

Your viewpoint. You are framing this from a child's view that you're can't make one of the teams as a child wonder unless your parents are willing to put out for your development. Isn't that pretty much true of every sport at the children's level?

And as in most things as you age it's a different world. You have to do the putting out. Not that that makes it any easier. But whether or not you make it comes down more to being you. I believe that for the top level fencers the age range is from 25-35 (ok I'm being broad and more for foil and epee here). But I believe it starts with talent but then each one makes their own story.

[sleepyweasle]

It is a sobering reality - but the money does run out. We cannot afford to send our fencer to any more international events this year. Period. We can barely keep up with her training costs as well as tuition costs for her and her sister. She understands this and already had one job - by September she hopes to have a second job while attending college to help us defray some of her costs. My husband and I both work and have decent jobs with relatively good pay - but 25 - 50,000 $ per year (not counting tuition to college - and grad school for her sister) is more than we can handle at this point. Talent and drive are necessary but unless you have the money there is only so far you can go...

[teacup]

If an American athlete has the talent but is neither independently wealthy or sponsored, yes, if they have the talent and drive, they can work and fund themselves, hopefully with a job that allows them time off and health insurance.

Not only is it difficult enough to train at the same time self funding but they are competing against professional athletes, who are supported by their countries, whose only job is to train and compete.

It is truly an amazing individual that can overcome such hurdles.

From a previous post:
This is from the USOC website:

Q: How is the U.S. Olympic Movement funded?
A: In the United States, the Olympic effort is unique in that it is funded by contributions from private citizens and by major support from the corporate community. The U.S. Olympic Committee is one of only a few of the current 198 NOCs that receives no continuous federal government subsidy. The USOC also operates a direct marketing program, which includes direct mail contribution solicitations and mail order purchases of USOC-licensed apparel and items through distribution of catalogs, flyers, magazine advertising and an online store on the USOC's web site.

NOC, National Olympic Committee

[piste off]

I think it is much harder, and will be more so going forward, to make a national team than it was a few years ago (and prior). Having come out of a 10-12 year hiatus last year, I am stunned by the growth in fencing, especially at the younger ages.

Moreover, the level of these kids is great. We used to see a phenom every once in awhile, now there are several in every weapon/gender/age group.

Having had the pleasure of training with the best over the last three decades (with the exception of the hiatus) the most important attribute for success that I have seen is the raw desire to win.

You need the other stuff (coaching, training, athletic talent, money etc.) but without that you won't succeed. It is also something that can't be bought... you either have it or don't IMHO.

Rick

[T]

Here is my impression - tell me if I am way off base:

In addition to being talented, in order to get on the National Team for say the World Championships, you have to have a parent or benefactor with disposable capital and lots of vacation time, say about $40-50K per year (and maybe 6-8 weeks of time off), to pay for coaches, clubs, influence, international and national travel, and equipment.

What am I missing?

Before any specifics can be discussed too deeply, we need to distinguish the difference between "making a world team" vs. doing well at the world championships. In addition, all teams are not created equal. Different age groups and different weapons require different things. For instance, the resources, time, money, and training for making the sr. w. saber team are significantly different than those required for making a cadet w.epee team. I also suspect that making a sr. world championship team next year (ie, the year after the Olympics) will be significantly easier (in most categories) and cheaper than it was this year or last year.

Before we can intelligently narrow down what it takes to make a world championship team, we first need to narrow down which team it is you want to make the team in...