Getting on the U.S. National Team

[Inquartata]

So, the next question becomes – what are the opportunity costs for this $5600+

Ah! Ah! Now you are talking my language.

Anyone who displays a working understanding of economic principles rises immeasurably in my estimation.

Way to work for those votes!

[Peach]

And Vet 40, 50 and 60.

Vet-50 and Vet-60 have different birthday rules, of course, rules which vary from year to year depending on the dates of Veteran Worlds.

[KD5MDK]

Isn't it still the last event of their season? The Birthday rules are extremely unlikely to go so early as March or as late as December.

[Peach]

Isn't it still the last event of their season? The Birthday rules are extremely unlikely to go so early as March or as late as December.

I remember once we had to have the veteran national championships early (with, as I recall, the Div I).

[ToucheVerte]

OK. Apologies for my ignorance and lack of statistical ability (having tried to figure it out), but maybe someone could provide a 'Points 101', as I am trying to understand the typical points range between 1st -32nd place in the following competitions:

(1) JO Cadet Foil
(2) Division I NAC Foil
(3) European Cadet B Foil (Weights 1.0 and 1.5)
(4) NAC Junior Foil

Thanks for your help.

[teacup]

OK. Apologies for my ignorance and lack of statistical ability (having tried to figure it out), but maybe someone could provide a 'Points 101', as I am trying to understand the typical points range between 1st -32nd place in the following competitions:

(1) JO Cadet Foil
(2) Division I NAC Foil
(3) European Cadet B Foil (Weights 1.0 and 1.5)
(4) NAC Junior Foil

Thanks for your help.

The charts for the number of domestic and international points given for placement are in the Athletes Handbook. For Jr. and Sr. World Cups there is a strength factor formula which is also in the handbook.

[ToucheVerte]

The charts for the number of domestic and international points given for placement are in the Athletes Handbook. For Jr. and Sr. World Cups there is a strength factor formula which is also in the handbook.

Could you please provide a link to this information?

[oiuyt]

Could you please provide a link to this information?

Athlete Handbook

Strength Factors for junior and senior international points are on page 33.

The domestic points table is on pages A-15 to A-17. International on A-18.

-B

[ToucheVerte]

Thank you very much.

[teacup]

Is there a strength factor formula for cadet designated events? I know there isn't for epee but is there one for foil or sabre?

[T]

Is there a strength factor formula for cadet designated events? I know there isn't for epee but is there one for foil or sabre?

No, cadet international events have no strength factor. They are all 700 points for the winner and less as you go down the line. There is a column for it in the back of the Athlete Handbook (A-18).

[teacup]

No, cadet international events have no strength factor. They are all 700 points for the winner and less as you go down the line. There is a column for it in the back of the Athlete Handbook (A-18).

I didn't think so but toucheverte mentioned in a prior post cadet foil events with weights of 1 and 1.5. I have never been aware of any cadet strength factors and wondered what he was referring to.

Originally Posted by ToucheVerte
OK. Apologies for my ignorance and lack of statistical ability (having tried to figure it out), but maybe someone could provide a 'Points 101', as I am trying to understand the typical points range between 1st -32nd place in the following competitions:

(1) JO Cadet Foil
(2) Division I NAC Foil
(3) European Cadet B Foil (Weights 1.0 and 1.5)
(4) NAC Junior Foil

[T]

I didn't think so but toucheverte mentioned in a prior post cadet foil events with weights of 1 and 1.5. I have never been aware of any cadet strength factors and wondered what he was referring to.

Originally Posted by ToucheVerte
OK. Apologies for my ignorance and lack of statistical ability (having tried to figure it out), but maybe someone could provide a 'Points 101', as I am trying to understand the typical points range between 1st -32nd place in the following competitions:

(1) JO Cadet Foil
(2) Division I NAC Foil
(3) European Cadet B Foil (Weights 1.0 and 1.5)
(4) NAC Junior Foil

It appears that for 2009 Cadet Mens Foil team the events have been weighted (below):

a. Samorin, SVK (weight value 1.0), Oct. 2008

b. Cabries, FRA (weight value 1.5), Nov. 2008

c. Koblenz, GER (weight value 1.5), Jan. 2009

This is not a strength factor, per se, since there are no international ratings to calculate a strength factor. The coach must have assigned these weights on the historical strength of the event and is giving less weight to the first one.

[teacup]

It appears that for 2009 Cadet Mens Foil team the events have been weighted (below):

a. Samorin, SVK (weight value 1.0), Oct. 2008

b. Cabries, FRA (weight value 1.5), Nov. 2008

c. Koblenz, GER (weight value 1.5), Jan. 2009

This is not a strength factor, per se, since there are no international ratings to calculate a strength factor. The coach must have assigned these weights on the historical strength of the event and is giving less weight to the first one.

So could the winner of b & c potentially receive 1050 points? (700 x 1.5) Just not sure where this is stated in the handbook.

[T]

So could the winner of b & c potentially receive 1050 points? (700 x 1.5) Just not sure where this is stated in the handbook.

That is what it appears to be. It is not in the handbook yet as the new 2008-09 handbook is not out yet. It is on the USFA webpage that was posted last week, I believe. For Men's Foil
http://www.usfencing.org/usfa/content/view/2774/143/

I actually have to commend the USFA for putting up the selection criteria so early. At least every junior and cadet who didn't qualify for Div 1 nationals knows that it won't be used, in part, to determine next year's world team. Of course, some of those who are attending the Div 1 Nationals in Portland may be going because these points have been used in the past for cadet/junior teams (although the Div 1 event is held at summer nationals in most years). If they had known that they definitely were not going to count, before they made their plane reservations, fewer of them may have gone. I doubt this is a lot of people but for any one person, it could cost them an extra $600 to make a trip they didn't really need to make (in order to qualify for a cadet/junior team). But at least the USFA is moving in the right direction on this point. I remember a couple of years when the selection criteria were not published until October or November and events to be used in the selection process had already occurred.

[teacup]

Though the Div I Championship points will not be used for team selection, they will be used for rolling points which are used to determine who is eligible to attend Jr. World Cups.

So for some that could be a consideration on whether or not to attend but I agree, it would be nice to have all the facts before entry deadlines and travel arrangements have to be made.

And yes, it is to be commended that the team selection criteria has been published early.