Question Regarding Petitions

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

I also don't think I'd be interested to start the thread you suggest, but perhaps you could do so yourself if you need a second place to vent your prejudices against me, Peter, anisa, FraterFrag, Emma and any other Swede that visit these fora? Feel free.

Me - mentioned by a fencer before Emma?! Watch it ZZ, you might get my head to explode with insufferable pompousness!


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[teacup]

Perhaps the more interesting question is what happens when team qualifiers are held on a religious holiday since there is no petition process for teams?

[fencerbill]

Good reason to have inclusive multi-cultural fencing clubs.

There are a few fencing teams at colleges that follow strict religious observance. Scheduling of dual meets is within their control. They do need cooperation from the other members of their fencing conference when scheduling championships and multi-meets. And I expect they, through the years, have passed up opportunities to participate in things like NCAA championships that cannot be flexible.

[oiuyt]

Eric Liddell (see: Chariots of Fire) is a reasonably well-known non-American historical example on this topic.

-B

[keith]

....or even Michael Jones who refused to play on Sundays.

Sat out a world cup semi-final.

[rdg]

I don't know too much about Jewish holidays, but I have heard this complaint once or twice before. It would be nice if both the local BayCup and the USFA where a little more aware of Jewish holidays, esp. the ones that involve big family events.

I don't think I would want to fence on Good Friday, which is a fast day for some - although I probably would. I certainly would not be able to fence Christmas.

But to be argumentative: Sabbath starts on Fri night and goes through Sat sundown. Wouldn't that preclude holding an event on a Sat, since you are not supposed to work on the Sabbath either? That would be pretty restrictive for the rest of us.

Sam

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by rdg

I don't know too much about Jewish holidays, but I have heard this complaint once or twice before. It would be nice if both the local BayCup and the USFA where a little more aware of Jewish holidays, esp. the ones that involve big family events.

I don't think I would want to fence on Good Friday, which is a fast day for some - although I probably would. I certainly would not be able to fence Christmas.

But to be argumentative: Sabbath starts on Fri night and goes through Sat sundown. Wouldn't that preclude holding an event on a Sat, since you are not supposed to work on the Sabbath either? That would be pretty restrictive for the rest of us.

Sam

It comes down to reasonability. Most Jews do not strictly observe the Sabbath to a degree that they can't do anything on Saturdays. There are Christians who feel the same about Sundays (can't do anything but church). Between them and the Orthodox Jews and Muslims, there goes the weekend!

There's a big difference between scheduling an event on a Sunday and scheduling it on Christmas. Similarly, a big difference between scheduling on a Saturday and scheduling on Yom Kippur.

Trying to accommodate the very small minority who feel that strongly about their religion's particular Sabbath is simply not reasonable. It is a choice they have to make.

-m

[oso97]

I have a couple of young students from highly religious (Christian) families. They've made it very clear that their kids will not, ever, no way, no how be fencing on a Sunday.

This is perfectly acceptable to them. And, while it grates upon me occasionally (especially since the younger one has a very hard work ethic and a flair for tactics!), there's nothing I can do about it. I accept that they will not follow down this path, and I don't do anything to pressure them. They also do not pressure for more of their events on Saturdays. Since one is a boy and one is a girl, they're looking at having one of them on Sundays and the one won't attend if the other can't that weekend.

Fair enough. They're loyal, contributing members of my club, they pay their dues and they come to practice. But they'll never be high level competitors.

One of the nights our club is open is Wednesdays. That is when the competitive members come, and get lessons, and extra bouting and such. I have several members of the club who have informed me that they will never be able to participate on Wednesdays, because of of church services that are held on Wednesdays (I was raised Catholic, in a predominantly Catholic city and had never HEARD of Wednesday evening services until I moved to Dallas). Again, that is a choice they make.

Make the choice. Either you get to choose behind Door #1, or behind Door #2. If fencing is important to you, you choose Door #1. If attending religious services is important to you, you choose Door #2. Life is full of choices. One can not always get to have everything.

[rdg]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

It comes down to reasonability. Most Jews do not strictly observe the Sabbath to a degree that they can't do anything on Saturdays. There are Christians who feel the same about Sundays (can't do anything but church). Between them and the Orthodox Jews and Muslims, there goes the weekend!

There's a big difference between scheduling an event on a Sunday and scheduling it on Christmas. Similarly, a big difference between scheduling on a Saturday and scheduling on Yom Kippur.

Trying to accommodate the very small minority who feel that strongly about their religion's particular Sabbath is simply not reasonable. It is a choice they have to make.

-m

How dull. I think I agree; however I reserve the right to change my mind though.

Sam

[rdg]

I have a couple of young students from highly religious (Christian) families. They've made it very clear that their kids will not, ever, no way, no how be fencing on a Sunday.

I certainly don't miss living in the South, where that point of view is so pervasive (or was that perversive). I am aware of the Wed thing too.

At one point in college, a brand new professor - and a friend of mine - was on the Univeristy library committee, and he actualy suggested that the library be open Sun before 1:00 pm. The head librarian answered, without any irony or humor, "you should be in church". BTW: The library remained closed Sun morning the 6 years I was there.

So dear Peter G. can you even imagine living in a society like that! I certainly didn't enjoy it, and don't miss it.

Sam

[Mr Epee]

There are many wonderful things about Sweden.

What's not to like?

Meanwhile in Sweden....