04-02-2008, 05:53 PM
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#41 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: 40D 34' 7.046" N by 74D 26' 23.503" W
Posts: 754
| Agreed. What was done to Mauler was not right.
Unfortunately, we come to the situation where referees are coaches themselves. To find referees that solely referee is indeed a difficult problem, particularly since referees are not static. One in which I don't believe will be resloved quickly, mostly because coaches are static, and will continue with the sport much longer than any referee would.
It is a natural progression from fencer to referee (those who want to give back or continue to spectate and be involved with the sport), and a referee to coach (those who want to teach what they have learned to others, and make money doing it).
Unfortunately, there is no way to really make a living as a professional referee, unless you were say, Mauler. I used to hang out with Mauler and go to almost all the events he did. I just didn't have the same customer service, marketability and masochistic tendencies that Mauler had. Even so, there is still no way I could make a reasonable living as a pro-referee, though I am trying...
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Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.
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04-03-2008, 01:04 AM
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#42 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: George Mason Univesity and NJ
Posts: 194
| Quote:
Originally Posted by counter riposte  Agreed. What was done to Mauler was not right.
Unfortunately, we come to the situation where referees are coaches themselves. To find referees that solely referee is indeed a difficult problem, particularly since referees are not static. One in which I don't believe will be resolved quickly, mostly because coaches are static, and will continue with the sport much longer than any referee would. | I very much agree. I think overall, it is a complicated situation. However, I agree with the OP that at the surface level, the problem needs to be addressed by having the rules equally applied to all refs.
__________________
"Sir, didn't I parry"
"You didn't take advantage of his blade enough, so no."
(I guess i should have romanced it a bit more..."
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04-03-2008, 01:49 AM
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#43 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,452
| A few issues in private
Damon, I have a few questions about the happenings at summer nationals, but I don't want to get into the names, do you mind if I ask you about it in PM?
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"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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04-03-2008, 01:55 AM
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#44 | | Bitter young coach
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,452
| Also, I want to throw in my complete agreement here.
What happened to Mauler was absolutely disgusting, and bothered me both as a referee and on a personal level, as Mauler is a good friend of mine. The harsh and draconian application of a somewhat arbitrary rule to a ref who both depends on the income from tournaments and is (or at least was) perhaps the most dedicated and hardworking referee in the country and certainly worth the benefit of the doubt in any case was a god damned shame. I hope the FOCs responsible for breaking his faith in them and in the national reffing scene as a whole are ashamed of themselves.
__________________
"If I were ever to challenge you to a duel, your best bet would be battle axes in a very dark basement." Misquoted from The Prisoner
"Technical excellence is the antecedant of tactical creativity." - Nat Goodhartz
But those things which belong neither to God nor to Caeser, feeleth free to writeth them off, for yea, they are deductable.
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04-03-2008, 03:39 AM
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#45 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska, USA
Posts: 125
| Quote:
Originally Posted by RITFencing Damon, I have a few questions about the happenings at summer nationals, but I don't want to get into the names, do you mind if I ask you about it in PM? | Yes, feel free to send me an email. But I wasn't there when it happened, so I can simply state my own opinions. | |
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04-11-2008, 08:24 AM
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#46 | | Member
Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 68
| Question for you: I took the ref exam at the last NAC. I have yet to hear my results, and nobody will return my emails. Could my results have been THAT BAD?? How long does it take to correct these papers? Is someone besides me slackin'? | |
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04-11-2008, 08:28 AM
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#47 | | Member
Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 68
| Scaggs, you held a ref seminar a few months ago. Are you sure the FOC takes this seriously? Do you have any advice on how to contact a warm body there to answer my questions? | |
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04-11-2008, 09:03 AM
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#48 | | Senior Member
Join Date: May 2006 Location: Here
Posts: 2,100
| also try http://foc.askfred.net/Referee/ and see if your name and results are there.
__________________ Quote: |
Originally Posted by IHateMrPotatohead I can't think of anything to put down there! |  | |
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04-11-2008, 11:38 AM
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#49 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: George Mason Univesity and NJ
Posts: 194
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker snip... Are you sure the FOC takes this seriously? | Yes. Almost all if not all of the FOCs take their job very seriously. I would not recommend insinuating that they don't. 
__________________
"Sir, didn't I parry"
"You didn't take advantage of his blade enough, so no."
(I guess i should have romanced it a bit more..."
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04-11-2008, 11:57 AM
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#50 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 36
| "Pay them like professionals and you'll be more likely to get professional behavior.
Just a thought."
Professional, ethical behavior should not come with a price tag. | |
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04-11-2008, 12:03 PM
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#51 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Somewhere between Pennsylvania and Connecticut
Posts: 117
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Slacker Are you sure the FOC takes this seriously? Do you have any advice on how to contact a warm body there to answer my questions? | We take it pretty seriously and there are a number of ways to get in touch with various members of the FOC. On the FOC website www.fencingofficials.org, there is a link to each of our email addresses. There is also a link on the left to FOC Committees. Under that you'll see a link to the Referee Development Committee. Through this you can send an email to the chair of that group - which just so happens to be me. Unfortunately, all of these are email links as warm bodies may be somewhat more difficult unless you're willing to travel...
In addition, on the ratings website www.foc.askfred.net/Referee/ there is a box at the left to "Report Errors." There is also a contact box at the left.
That said, feel free to send me an email. My address is r_greg_d1@yahoo.com. Give me the details (your name, the date, what tests you took, etc.) and I'll see what I can do.
Greg
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04-11-2008, 12:11 PM
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#52 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Dana Hall School, Wellesely, MA
Posts: 3,460
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Originally Posted by bruisedfleche "Pay them like professionals and you'll be more likely to get professional behavior.
Just a thought."
Professional, ethical behavior should not come with a price tag. | "Professionals get paid. That's why we call them pros." -Sgt. Carver Elllis, The Wire
-m | |
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04-11-2008, 02:20 PM
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#53 | | Member
Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 68
| I mean no disrespect to the FOC. Seriously. I would like to be one of their number! I have clicked on my ref rating on Fred DAILY with no results posted. I've checked my emails twice a day, hoping for a message. The emails I sent to the examiners came back undeliverable. The FOC promptly sent me a reply, saying someone would be getting back to me shortly... that was a month ago. I'm beginning to think they lost the exams and just don't want to admit it. | |
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04-11-2008, 02:22 PM
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#54 | | Member
Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Southeast Wisconsin
Posts: 68
| Thank you for looking into it, Greg. I'll email you with particulars. | |
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04-11-2008, 02:44 PM
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#55 | | "The Judge"
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,746
| since i'm such a web app oriented kind of guy, wouldn't it be great if you could take the basic ref seminar online, take the test, know your results immediately, and have them updated on fred and with the FOC? for your 10's that is. | |
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04-11-2008, 02:45 PM
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#56 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Somewhere between Pennsylvania and Connecticut
Posts: 117
| Quote:
Originally Posted by noodle since i'm such a web app oriented kind of guy, wouldn't it be great if you could take the basic ref seminar online, take the test, know your results immediately, and have them updated on fred and with the FOC? for your 10's that is. | If you're offering to build the system I'll take you up on it...
GD | |
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04-11-2008, 02:51 PM
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#57 | | "The Judge"
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,746
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Originally Posted by Greg_D If you're offering to build the system I'll take you up on it...
GD | it would really not be *that* hard to build.
if you're willing to film the video required and provide me the data required (i.e. all questions and answers, with correct answers indicated, etc.) in digital form, then i'd give it a go.
Last edited by noodle : 04-11-2008 at 02:53 PM.
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04-11-2008, 02:54 PM
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#58 | | Member
Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: D.C.
Posts: 52
| Wouldn't they still need to attend the referee seminar? I could see how online testing would be helpful for those who re-take the test, but the initial one who still most likely be given at the conclusion of the seminar.
That test should require video, should it? I thought everything was in text. | |
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04-11-2008, 03:02 PM
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#59 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,360
| Quote:
Originally Posted by noodle it would really not be *that* hard to build.
if you're willing to film the video required and provide me the data required (i.e. all questions and answers, with correct answers indicated, etc.), then i'd give it a go. | If this gets off the ground, let me know and I can expose a REST service (SSL'ed and with a key to authenticate) for your app to update stuff at foc.askfred.net.
I could even give you the images & html so you could make it look like it's all occurring at foc.askfred.net. (but of course you could just scrape that yourself if you wanted to... )
-p | | | |
