Kelley Hurley in the news

[JEC]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/s...5.36b5a13.html

[jjefferies]

Hmm, I hadn't really been keeping up with all that. Great for her

I'll make a jump of some sort here and assume that this is Tracey Hurley's daughter? Which would explain why Tracey is wanting to make sure the USFA doesn't drop the ball this year like it did after the last Olympic.

Good to have someone really motivated to promote the sport involved in the USFA. These past few years my sense of the USFA was all bureaucracy and little passion.

[piste off]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/s...5.36b5a13.html

Hey, 100% of the fencers mentioned in the article are from Texas!

Just kidding, JEC.

Hats off to all the Hurleys!!!

Rick

[Mo]

I'll make a jump of some sort here and assume that this is Tracey Hurley's daughter? Which would explain why Tracey is wanting to make sure the USFA doesn't drop the ball this year like it did after the last Olympic.

I have asked this question so many times before, what precisely was the USFA supposed to do to capitalize or how did they drop the ball?? What EXACTLY were they supposed to do?
This same statement gets repeated over and over. What would you have them do this year to promote fencing?
What do you want?
Don't tell me something general like "optimize publicity" give some specific things that the USFA should to do to capitalize on the Olympics?
The Momster

[JEC]

Hey, 100% of the fencers mentioned in the article are from Texas!

Just kidding, JEC.

Rick,
I knew that this was coming. I had the thread initially titled (just as the Capt) as Texas fencers get some ink, but that would have been too much of an invitation.

Jeff, yes, this is the oldest of the two daughters (both members of the US WE team). Courtney was for most of the season the top US fencers in the zonal standings (and 2nd after the Canadian Sherraine Schalm). She will be ready for London 2012.

[jjefferies]

I have asked this question so many times before, what precisely was the USFA supposed to do to capitalize or how did they drop the ball?? What EXACTLY were they supposed to do?
This same statement gets repeated over and over. What would you have them do this year to promote fencing?
What do you want?
Don't tell me something general like "optimize publicity" give some specific things that the USFA should to do to capitalize on the Olympics?
The Momster

Well Really, I wasn't cognizant of the details at the time. So like yourself I got it afterwards and in not all that great a detail. But my hazy recollection of conversations was basically that the USFA or the responsible part wasn't prepared to deal with the US winning a medal much less a gold. There was one gold wasn't there? Bad boy. So as you mention more publicity in general, hyping the sport and the athletes. One suspects it's a matter of degree with probably a little of the "could have done better myself" added in. But the basic charge that I've heard leveled by people closer to the fire than myself is that there wasn't a plan in place and the USFA (as an entity) couldn't come up with a plan fast enough afterwards to make the most of the opportunity. Assuming you're a fencer then you know what it's like to afterwards realize you had a golden opportunity but let it slip by not adjusting.

Oops. Sorry I'm out of here.

[Hobbes]

Well Really, I wasn't cognizant of the details at the time. So like yourself I got it afterwards and in not all that great a detail. But my hazy recollection of conversations was basically that the USFA or the responsible part wasn't prepared to deal with the US winning a medal much less a gold. There was one gold wasn't there? Bad boy. So as you mention more publicity in general, hyping the sport and the athletes. One suspects it's a matter of degree with probably a little of the "could have done better myself" added in. But the basic charge that I've heard leveled by people closer to the fire than myself is that there wasn't a plan in place and the USFA (as an entity) couldn't come up with a plan fast enough afterwards to make the most of the opportunity. Assuming you're a fencer then you know what it's like to afterwards realize you had a golden opportunity but let it slip by not adjusting.

Oops. Sorry I'm out of here.

I don't see how the USFA would be the organization that would be to blame for not taking advantage of the medal. What would we want them to do? Did the national organization in charge of gymnastics use their gold in 1996 (it was 96 wasn't it?) to help promote their sport? If so I didn't notice.

If anyone wants to help promote our sport by celebrating our international champion it seems to me that it would fall on the local and divisional levels. Sure South Carolina was not the home of any medalist in fencing, but at the time I was in charge of my college team and mentioned the gold medal on every piece of advertising we had. Heck, we weren't even a saber team, we were epee.

I guess I don't understand what anyone is blaming the USFA for. They run our national tournaments, keep our databases of ratings, collect our money, all the stuff to keep the sport running (whether or not you like the way they do those things are topics I avoid all together). So if I am just wasting my breath and completely missing the point, let me know.

[noodle]

I don't see how the USFA would be the organization that would be to blame for not taking advantage of the medal. What would we want them to do? Did the national organization in charge of gymnastics use their gold in 1996 (it was 96 wasn't it?) to help promote their sport? If so I didn't notice.

If anyone wants to help promote our sport by celebrating our international champion it seems to me that it would fall on the local and divisional levels. Sure South Carolina was not the home of any medalist in fencing, but at the time I was in charge of my college team and mentioned the gold medal on every piece of advertising we had. Heck, we weren't even a saber team, we were epee.

I guess I don't understand what anyone is blaming the USFA for. They run our national tournaments, keep our databases of ratings, collect our money, all the stuff to keep the sport running (whether or not you like the way they do those things are topics I avoid all together). So if I am just wasting my breath and completely missing the point, let me know.

let me finish the thought for you:

its not the USFA's job to market your club for you. "new fencers" don't join the USFA and learn how to fence from the USFA. they join the individual clubs. sure, some national-level mass media will help, but there's only so far that the national-level media will take a story. if you want to get more exposure for your own club in your local paper to peak interest in fencing in your area, submit information on the olympics yourself.

[Hobbes]

let me finish the thought for you:

its not the USFA's job to market your club for you. "new fencers" don't join the USFA and learn how to fence from the USFA. they join the individual clubs. sure, some national-level mass media will help, but there's only so far that the national-level media will take a story. if you want to get more exposure for your own club in your local paper to peak interest in fencing in your area, submit information on the olympics yourself.

thank you, that is essentially where I was going with my train of thought before a commercial with singing penguins came on the TV.

[T]

I have asked this question so many times before, what precisely was the USFA supposed to do to capitalize or how did they drop the ball?? What EXACTLY were they supposed to do?
This same statement gets repeated over and over. What would you have them do this year to promote fencing?
What do you want?
Don't tell me something general like "optimize publicity" give some specific things that the USFA should to do to capitalize on the Olympics?
The Momster

Part 1 of 2.
Unfortunately, the USFA didn't have the infrastructure (or ideas) in place to capitalize on the last Olympics (they really should not have been so surprised that one of the saber women won given that Sada was a top (the top?) seed going into it). And with such a short lead time before the next Olympics takes place this year, the odds are the USFA won't do much better (but we can always hope).

While I agree with Hobbes and noodle about the USFA not being responsible for marketing your local club, they ARE responsible for promoting the sport which would, in theory, trickle down to local clubs who could take advantage of the national efforts if appropriately coordinated. Whether the local clubs want to be part of the coordinated effort is another topic.

One of the comments that Mo has made in the past is that the NCAA handcuffs how the USFA can use the gold-medal or Olympic athletes that are collegiate athletes without violating NCAA eligibility rules (correct me if I'm wrong, Mo). Of course, Marial and Sada (and other Olympians-to-be) no longer fit in that category but many of our Olympic athletes will (like Becca, Kelley, Gerek, and Emily Cross), so they will have that constraint. So, the first thing that we have to do is to understand exactly what the NCAA will allow the athletes to do without jeopardizing their eligibility.

I am not an NCAA expert and I'm also sure that others have more detailed knowledge of NCAA bylaws; however, in a brief reading of them, it states that:

12.1.2.4.10 Expenses for Participation in Olympic Exhibitions.
An individual may receive actual and necessary expenses from the U.S. Olympic Committee (USOC), national governing body (NGB) or the nonprofessional organizations sponsoring the event to participate in Olympic tours or exhibitions involving Olympic team members and/or members of the national team, provided that if the individual is a student-athlete, he or she misses no class time, and the exhibition does not conflict with dates of institutional competition. (Adopted: 10/28/97 effective 8/1/98)

and

12.1.2.4.3 Exception for Institutional Fundraising Activities Involving the Athletics Ability of Student-Athletes.
Institutional, charitable or educational promotions or fundraising activities that involve the use of athletics ability by student-athletes to obtain funds (e.g., "swim-a-thons") are permitted only if:
(a) All moneys derived from the activity or project go directly to the member institution, member conference or the charitable, educational or nonprofit agency; (Revised: 5/11/05)
(b) The student-athletes receive no compensation or prizes for their participation; and
(c) The provisions of Bylaw 12.5.1 are satisfied (this is a statement of nonprofit organizational status)

So, based on these NCAA restrictions, it appears that individual athletes are handcuffed in their actions to 'profit' from an Olympic success. But the USFA is not so restricted. In other words, Becca (for example) cannot make any real gold if she wins gold at the Olympics but the USFA can use her picture, her name, and have her participate in Exhibitions or fence-a-thons (as long as she doesn't miss any classes) without any negative consequences in terms of NCAA eligibility. The catch is that only necessary and appropriate expenses can be paid to Becca for all of her promotional efforts.

To be continued in Part 2 ...(because this one is too long)…

[T]

Next, we need to define exactly what we mean by the USFA "capitalizing on the Olympics". I assume it means that

1) the USFA can capture some significant donations and
2) the USFA membership rolls will increase

All, as a function of Olympic Success!

Capturing Donations: In a quick glance at the USOC website, there are 33 corporate sponsors with varying degrees of financial commitment. One of the reasons that these corporations are sponsors is because their Board of Directors or the Executive Staff believes in the Olympic ideal. In addition, they see a profitable opportunity to be associated with something as grand as the Olympics (and all that it implies).

Here is one idea. The main objective is to get the corporations vested in the sport through participation. We can no longer 'ask' for donations just because we are an Olympic, amateur sport.

Many amateur sports organizations have an annual gala. The gala is a black-tie affair with an expensive, (albeit, often tasteless) dinner. An open bar helps with this problem. Depending on the city, corporate tables are sold at varying prices to sponsor the event. Guess what the entertainment for the evening is? "Fencing with the Stars."

To capitalize on reality TV shows, the USFA could organize an event around the theme of "Fencing with the Stars." Corporate sponsors could sponsor two of their employees to train with the same Olympian. The cost to the sponsor would be the training expenses and equipment required for their 2 chosen employees for 3 or 6 months (less than $1000 each) plus the cost for sponsoring the table at the gala (described above). The employees would have to be the same gender/weapon as their 'star' fencer and located in a city near them. The 'star' would then make regular appearances at the club (twice a month or so) and 'train' with the sponsored employee and make an appearance at the sponsoring corporation's office location to 'promote' the event (with only 'actual and necesary' expenses covered). The rest of the time, the sponsored employee is trained by the club coach - just like any other club member. At the end of the time period (e.g., 3 or 6 months), which should coincide with the date of the Gala, these 3-person teams (2 corporate employees and 1 'star') could fence a team event with other, similarly organized teams. Heck, we might even be able to get a tv station to pick up on this idea

Increasing membership rolls:. Here are 2 (but related) ideas.

#1. Beginning months before the Olympics (the beginning of May?), the USFA advertises heavily to their membership about who the Olympians are, what events they are competing in, their background, successes-to-date, etc. In addition, what day their event will be contested at the Olympics, and then, eventually what the outcomes are. It is also important for this info to be disseminated to all USFA clubs so if/when asked questions about the Olympics by potential club members or the press, they can speak about them with some facts.

#2. A (trained) USFA staff/media person will receive a webcam and/or camera/laptop capable of producing a YouTube video. Every day of the Olympics, a YouTube video is produced and posted. The YouTube video will highlight a different aspect of fencing for the viewers while capitalizing on some aspect of the Olympic adventure. The video should be about 3-5 minutes long. Of course, more than 1 video could be produced each day. USFA athletes and staff will also contribute to a daily blog that summarizes the day's activities. While competing athletes will have some responsibility in this, their time requirements would be expected to be perhaps 30 each mins per day (and not every day for all athletes). These daily YouTube videos will be used to publicize the events the day or days before they occur, the day they are happening, and, perhaps the day after. Any videos from the Olympics during that time-frame will receive thousands (or even tens-of-thousands) of hits a day - depending on their uniqueness and level of entertainment value. On the video (and on the YouTube posting page), the USFA website and blog address are prominently displayed (we could use fencing.net blog) as well as a dedicated discussion board (fencing.net, again) for interested people with inquiries about fencing (such as locations, where, how much, and the usual FAQs). Of course, this means that someone needs to pay close attention to this discussion board so that inquiries are promptly and accurately responded to (and promptly deleted if inappropriate). Inquiring individuals could be directed to local clubs who would then be alerted with the contact email address of the person who posted the inquiry (it would also be a great idea of the club was running an 'Olympic special' in terms of discounted club dues, etc.). Since the majority of the inquiries will come a few weeks before the Olympics, during the Olympics or within a short time frame after the Olympics, it is imperative that the website is fully functional, there is a toll-free USFA Olympic hotline phone number setup to answer questions and to direct people to the discussion board or to local clubs in their area, and an Olympic email is established (and monitored).

Here is where the publicity to the local clubs will come in handy. Local clubs will know who is competing, what the results are, etc. In addition, the USFA will encourage club owners and coaches to visit the discussion board and the YouTube videos so they are aware of the publicity that is going on. And most importantly, the clubs must answer their email and phones during August - even if the phone number is forwarded to the USFA 800-Olympic hotline number and their email is forwarded to the USFA Olympic hotline email address. The USFA and member clubs cannot let phones go unanswered during August just because it is the 'off-season' for most fencers.

[Timberwolf_CY]

Once again, I may be talking out of my arse, but here goes...

I don't think anyone wants the USFA to advertise for a particular club, or even a group of clubs, division, etc. I think people that are steamed over the USFA in this area are those that want the USFA to simply publicize the sport in general, do something to generate appeal and interest; at the same time, using a momentous event like medaling in the Olympics as an example of success and possibilty.

For instance,

[booming advertising voice, with fencing in background] In 2006 x (where x relevent fencer) took the gold at the [insert place here] Olympic games. Could you be the next champion fencer of the United States? Of the world? Visit your local fencing club to begin the journey. Go to usfencing.com to find a club. [/booming advertising voice, show footage of a bunch of fencers together in a group shot or something showing camaraderie/community]

Yeah, I suck at advertising, but you get the point.

The biggest problem I see with something like this would be the cost. Producing the commercial would be cheap enough, but airing it across the country would probably drive the USFA bankrupt.

Thoughts?

[Hobbes]

T,

I see how your ideas would help to make the USFA a more visibly active player in the fencing world, but I don't know how much of an affect they would have towards the ultimate goals of gaining funds and membership. I will be the first to state that I am not too familiar with the working at the national level (read some of my posts, i am pretty ignorant), but we need to look at who the audiences are.

I like the idea of the dinner, but I am not familiar with the practice and don't know how that works. Am I invited? I like black tie events with open bars. Your fencing with the stars idea is neat, but you must remember, there are not exactly "stars" in the fencing community. I mean if i ran into Ivan Lee or Rebbecca Ward I would want an autograph or something, but if i were to go out tomorrow and ask 100 people who either of them were, I don't think a single person would guess. For that reason I don't know if the sponsors would invest the money. They sponsor the USFA to advertise to our community, they don't need to do anything beyond sponsorship for that goal. Also the training idea requires a lot out of our olympians, and they may not want to do that. I don't know how that would work.

As for your two ideas regarding membership boosts. your first one seems like something that most every coach who would pay attention to the info from the USFA would already be paying attention to. If they are not interested on their own I do not think they will pay attention to the USFA, just extra effort for no real result.

The second point you have seems like a lot of work. It sounds like something I would be very interested in. I would watch that youtube account daily (but at the moment I have no job and sit at the computer all day anyways). But for the average person when they look up the Olympics on something like youtube they are just looking for results. I am not sure that just because it has hits means people will actually be pulled into the sport. Once again it seems like while a good idea, the cost benefit analysis will not come out in favor for the project.

I am not trying to be a fly in the ointment here I promise. When it comes down to it, if we want to boost memberships, I still think it comes down to the local level. Interviews are out there with our stars. When you go do a presentation at a school, youth group, church, etc... bring along a video you put together, toss in the pictures of Mariel getting her gold, or an interview, along with lots of bouting. Heck I think something like that fencing with the stars would work better on a local level. And you could definitely get the media in on that. (if I ever start a club, can I use that idea?)

Ok enough of that from me. I just really feel, with all the crap the USFA takes, this is not one that should be put on their shoulders. The local level is where we get members. The USFA cannot be expected to reach out to non-USFA members. They have too much to do taking care of the rest of us that are already paying.

[Hobbes]

Once again, I may be talking out of my arse, but here goes...

I don't think anyone wants the USFA to advertise for a particular club, or even a group of clubs, division, etc. I think people that are steamed over the USFA in this area are those that want the USFA to simply publicize the sport in general, do something to generate appeal and interest; at the same time, using a momentous event like medaling in the Olympics as an example of success and possibilty.

For instance,

[booming advertising voice, with fencing in background] In 2006 x (where x relevent fencer) took the gold at the [insert place here] Olympic games. Could you be the next champion fencer of the United States? Of the world? Visit your local fencing club to begin the journey. Go to usfencing.com to find a club. [/booming advertising voice, show footage of a bunch of fencers together in a group shot or something showing camaraderie/community]

Yeah, I suck at advertising, but you get the point.

The biggest problem I see with something like this would be the cost. Producing the commercial would be cheap enough, but airing it across the country would probably drive the USFA bankrupt.

Thoughts?

If you saw the same ad for bobsledding, or speed skating, hurdling maybe, would you be like, "hmm I should give that a shot." again with the cost benefit just going the wrong way for this. And where would they market it? Advertising campaigns have specific audiences (for example watch spike for one day, then lifetime the next and count the repeat commercials, not too many). However in my house there live three fencers, and fencing is about the only thing we all really share a strong interest in (maybe alcohol).

Assuming fencers can get paid to be in a gatoraid ad or on a wheaties box would be the best thing. Or if there are fencers out there working for an advertising company, just put fencing in every commercial you make. The USFA is not going to invest in that type of thing though, it would be very expensive to get a big company to advertise your sport because you asked them to.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

The biggest problem I see with something like this would be the cost. Producing the commercial would be cheap enough, but airing it across the country would probably drive the USFA bankrupt.

Here's one plan: The USFA makes a generic "Image" :30-second spot not unlike your booming voice plan, but they spin it to not only appeal to Olympic aspirations, but play up the physical fitness benefits, joys/rewards of sports, etc. This veers it into Public Service Announcement (PSA) land. These get aired for free.

The USFA sends out copies of this spot to all the fencing clubs, with nicely detailed paperwork on USFA/USOC letterhead, imploring the local media folks to give the spot some airtime. The spot funnels responders directly to the USFA "where can I fence?" link. The club owners take this provided media to the Comcasts & local stations of their city, and do some talking.

Then, as a second pincer of the attack, the USFA also provides a generic "Fencing is Fun!" :30-second spot suitable for striping with the local club's name, address, phone number or website address. This is a paid spot, but when delivered to the same Comcast/Your Cable Company Here brand, the local club can do a limited buy at affordable cable cut-in rates, while saving the substantial up-front costs of actually producing the commercial themselves.

The "image" ad can feature Olympians, even those still in NCAA compliance, as long as they are not paid for the appearance, or if paid, all the money is turned over to the USFA or USOC. They cannot appear in the local ads, which is why two sets of spots would need to be produced.

This can't be the end-all of the USFA "taking advantage of" Olympic success...but it can be one facet of a multi-faceted campaign.

And it wouldn't cost a lot of money to produce.

[JEC]

And it wouldn't cost a lot of money to produce.

You have certainly done excellent TV clips. How is the WS documental going?

JEC

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

#2. A (trained) USFA staff/media person will receive a webcam and/or camera/laptop capable of producing a YouTube video. Every day of the Olympics, a YouTube video is produced and posted. The YouTube video will highlight a different aspect of fencing for the viewers while capitalizing on some aspect of the Olympic adventure.

I see big copyright problems with this - the IOC, NBC, and eventually CCBC will want to protect what they think are their rights.

Anyway, USA takes Olympic medals literally be the dozen every OG. There are hundreds of NCAA athletes in Olympic sports. Surely, this hand-cuff situation must have arisen before. How has is been successfully resolved (if at all) in those cases? Why try to reinvent the wheel, such solutions are in all likelihood not specific to the sport?

Pet Peeve of mine: People trying to solve a fencing problem, without first checking if it has been solved in another sport.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Mergs]

Hi!


Pet Peeve of mine: People trying to solve a fencing problem, without first checking if it has been solved in another sport.

Which was my point about having two separate organizations! BTW to answer your question from the other thread, Cycling, Golf, Tennis, are a few sports that come to mind for a multi-tiered approach to organizations.

[wbowman]

I see big copyright problems with this - the IOC, NBC, and eventually CCBC will want to protect what they think are their rights.

Peter makes a point about the YouTube idea that occurred to me too. Wasn't there a plan for a regular blog or newsletter at the last Olympics that had to be scuttled because whoever had the TV rights complained?
On the other hand, maybe YouTube proliferation has now reached the point that rights-holding grinches can no longer really control it.

[dekko]

It seems as though that USFencing is not in the financial position to capatalize from any of our fencers doing well at the Olympics from a commercial standpoint, something look what your kid could do. Also, the NCAA side of the equation seems to be a henderance, although it seems as though it's ok for Becca to have a sponsershp agreement with Leon Paul doesn't seem to be a problem but I'm sure that doesn't matter somehow.

I can tell you from a small club owner perspective in 2004 we were in a good position to make it easy to find us for those local who wanted to get/find info about fencing and did experience a good number of calls and emails wanting info.

I agree it is not necessarily the job of USFencing to promote an individual club but they do directly benefit from clubs having more members and promoting the sport on a national scene would be better than the nothing done now. As things are right now the best thing that can be done by clubs is to put themselves in a position to take advantage of people wanting information in the local market. Whether that is making your website easier to find on web searches or making your community more aware of your club someother way locally, even as far as some local advertising just to raise awareness. I know most of the calls I get from folks interested say the same thing, I didn't know there was a place to fence here, I am glad there is.

Hopefully many of our fencers bring back olympic medals and if they do have your club ready and easy to find so those who want their kids involved can find you and get info easier. I do wish there was something from the nation office to help but many years ago there was a decision made to focus more on elite fencers and fencing than those who were and are not elite. Until that changes nothing will happen directly or indirectly to help the clubs who have no olympic hopefuls.