Tests done to your equipment while fencing epee?

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Fairly straightforward question:

When you have competed in an epee event, which tests have your stuff been subjected to? Please click all that you have subjected to at least once in your career.

Only click on the alternatives that were tested with appropriate testing apparatus - eyeballing by the official does not cut it!

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[KD5MDK]

Do you wish for me to include tests I have conducted as an official?

[CvilleFencer]

Using a rather unique type of French grip I have also had people check to see if the grip extends past the guard and measure the length of the grip. I have not yet had anyone give me grief about the amount of tape on my grips, but I am expecting it one of these days as well. I know of a fencer who uses a setup similar to mine who had to deal with that.

[JEC]

I typically do 9 tests on weapons before a national tournament. Most (but for 2 French) of my weapons are pistol grip. Thus, total length is ok. Blade length, I only check when I buy in bulk (10 FIE blades at the time). The other listed tests, I have done them very rarely.

However, the 5 tests that I also perform in addition to the first four of the poll are:

= Pass the finger blade test: rub the top of the blade (along groove) checking that the wire is glued properly, and then again, while bending the blade backwards looking for no poping of the wire out of the groove.

= Tip condition and screws (is it smooth travel?)

= Screws tighten (at epee tip, barrel to blade, socket, hex nut)

= Check for grounding (using a test box in foil circuit)

= Use a 0.41mm shim to demonstrate closing the circuit (pass = beeper sound or light)

= Every so often, I use a 20g and 50g weights added to the 750g regular epee looking for beeper sound/light with 50g but not with 20g. This calibrates the big spring for one competition. A no light/sound with 50g (+750g) is for a training weapon. I only do this for NACs. This is test #10.

[brtech]

Since I don't fence, I'm going to answer this as an armorer:
I have armorered at a World Cup in New York where we had the gab and measured blade length, overall length, and bell cylinder, etc.

Otherwise, I have used the shims, weight, bend, measured overall length, improvised a cylinder and used it to measure that a grip was inside the max dimension. I've never done a flex test on an epee (but have on a saber). I've never measured thumb position.

[XanderHal]

Other than the shims and weight test I've just had my tip condition checked (as JEC mentions); one time I failed because of a missing screw. Now I try to remember to check my tip after every bout.

[Nolano]

I had the shims, the weight, the tip condition, and the wires under the pad checked.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Peter, for your statistics: I forgot to tick the "1.5 mm shim" box so...yes, I've had the lot done to my weapons.

[needle]

Forgot to check the "other" checkbox - I had wires under the pad checked as well.

[CvilleFencer]

Oh yeah I should have mentioned that as well. Wires under the pad checked at every local and higher tourney and often a quick check to make sure my cord was secured into the reel end socket. Also the occasional feeling up of my well taped grip and puffy bell pads for a switch. For some reason my comments along the lines of "son/girl, if I was gonna cheat you wouldn't be the one to find out how I was doing it" does not seem to reassure them. In fact they seem to try harder. Some people just can't take an armourers advice...

[BAD KNEE 2]

In "other" I have had checks under the pad nearly always, and tip screws looked at about half the time.

[Goldgar]

Bother! I forgot about wires under the guard, presence of retaining device, tip screws, and barrel tightness.

[needle]

darn - another "other". Tip screws - always checked. Retaining clip - sometimes.

[rdg]

Out here there is a tendency to let blades bend way too much (say 3 cm), esp., with those who like to flick. At one NAC, the director had a little peice of angle iron that she used to check bend. I was called on this once, and failed. I have asked that others be called on this, when the bend looked particulary exaggerated.

Also, the under the pad review is very common and left off of the check list.

--

Two related questions:

1. What is the rule on blades bending up?

2. Why is it that fencers are allowed to fix the bend, when they cannot fix a screw, for example. I.e., why isn't the weapon confiscated for the duration of the bout, like other equipment issues?

Sam

[Goldgar]

1. What is the rule on blades bending up?

Blades may bend up or down, but may only bend in one direction and are subject to the rule about maximum curvature.

2. Why is it that fencers are allowed to fix the bend, when they cannot fix a screw, for example. I.e., why isn't the weapon confiscated for the duration of the bout, like other equipment issues?

Probably because blades bend pretty much every time you hit with them, and it can normally be fixed very quickly.

[KD5MDK]

How long would it take the average fencer to replace a tip screw while geared up and in the middle of the adrenaline rush of a bout?

[rdg]

I see your point, but a zip tip or a team mate changing a screw can happen pretty fast, and that weapon would then be available as an alternate if the next weapon breaks. I think you see where I am going.

Also I have think of impounding the weapon was a form of punishment for coming to the strip unprepared or with illegal equipment. Following this thought, I think there is a tendency by some fencers to bend the tip way out of tolerance to gain an advantage. So, taking the weapon, supposing the fencer arrived at the strip with an illegally bent weapon seems appropriate.

Also a yellow card should be issued if the weapon arrives over bent; although in my case it may have been. Bending during a bout obviously is not grounds for a card; however if it is not brought into tolerance by the time the fencer goes on-guard, then I suspect they should be issued a yellow card, the same as if they knowingly did not replace a screw.

I look forward to replies because I think bending can approach cheating, and I think it is a little more serious than a nod and a wink. Then again maybe not.

Sam

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


The statistics on this poll are quite clear. 1st group of tests (shims+weight) have been done for almost everyone, and most of the rest have only been done to few fencers. The 1 cm blade bend test sits in an intermediate group all by itself, done to about 50%.

Statistics seldom yield such sharply trimodal distributions.

That said: Those of you who have experienced any of the more uncommon tests: (not shims, weight, blade bend, or checking for tip screw/thread under pad) - what was the lowest level of competition at which any of those uncommon tests have been performed on your epees?


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[JEC]

what was the lowest level of competition at which any of those uncommon tests have been performed on your epees?

Lowest level would be major regional (A3 or A4) in TX. These are: Longhorn, Pouj, and Bobcat. Perhaps, at Div. IA/Jr qualifiers. Always for NACs, JOs, and SNs.

[brtech]

I read his question as where were the UNCOMMON tests done? After you eliminate shims, weights and blade curve as the common ones. That would be things like the cylinder test, the length tests, the flex tests, etc.

While you MIGHT get tested for some of those at less than a World Cup, it would only be if someone complained.

Here in the USFA, we perform the common tests at every NAC (bend being still relatively unusual). We DON'T test for length, width, flex, etc unless someone complains. That happens relatively seldom. As I said, I have had to improvise a cylinder test once, but that was once.

If we run a World Cup, we won't typically bring out the gab. When we run a World Championship, we will. Every weapon will get the length, cylinder and other tests you can do on the gab. We don't normally do flex tests on epees, even in World Championships.