Flicking

[Carlos37]

Any tips on doing good flicks?I seem to be unable to do em

[Hobbes]

the best advice I have is to not do them in a match until you can do them well. My thumb who was broken by a bad flicker begs you.

[peet]

Learning to flick is the kind of thing that is best done with a coach who can directly observe and critique your technique (and who is wearing a nice thick coaching jacket!). It takes lots of practice to get the "feel" of it.

There isn't much that can be said in a web forum that will be all that helpful. (IMHO)



-p

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by peet

There isn't much that can be said in a web forum that will be all that helpful. (IMHO)
-p

Quoted for posterity.

[ACrimsonRapier]

fence on old timing machines. :P
flicking is cool, but not so effective. it almost seems more about luck than skill, with the current timings. however, you need a blade that's somewhat flexible, the right angle, and the right target. you can't flick someone in the wrong position. practice flicking your wrist with your blade to make sure you can make it bend properly. ask a friend to stand still so you can beat them with the side of your blade while you practive flicking. ^_^ take turns doing it, though, so they can have their revenge.

[Jay Young]

it almost seems more about luck than skill, with the current timings.

Not so. The old timings just allowed more slop. I've consistently seen flicks (in foil) register with the current FIE timings.

ask a friend to stand still so you can beat them with the side of your blade while you practive flicking.

I wouldn't suggest it.

Rather...

Learning to flick is the kind of thing that is best done with a coach who can directly observe and critique your technique (and who is wearing a nice thick coaching jacket!)

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by ACrimsonRapier

fence on old timing machines. :P

Maybe OK advice. It'll be a lot easier to get a light on, and even though not all of them will work on the new timings, it might get you used to the technique.

I've never seen it used as a coaching technique, but it's a possibility.

Originally Posted by ACrimsonRapier

flicking is cool, but not so effective.

Not so. It's even used, occasionally, at the international level. It's just not the bread and butter action it was a few years ago.

Originally Posted by ACrimsonRapier

it almost seems more about luck than skill, with the current timings.

Not at all. It is, however, much more a matter of distance and the position of the other fencer than it used to be, which may seem like luck.

Originally Posted by ACrimsonRapier

however, you need a blade that's somewhat flexible, the right angle, and the right target. you can't flick someone in the wrong position.

You don't need an especially flexible blade to flick if you do it correctly (but I agree with the rest).

[telkanuru]

Um... which wepon are we talking about here?

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Um... which wepon are we talking about here?

The OP was talking about epee but the post I was responding to seemed to refer to foil (and so did I).

[telkanuru]

Oh... well then... If you have issues with your flick work instead on refining your sense of distance which is an imperative precursor to a successful epee flick.

[Fechter1]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Oh... well then... If you have issues with your flick work instead on refining your sense of distance which is an imperative precursor to a successful epee flick.

QFT!!!

The best flicks are those that the opponent barely feels. To that end, (and for the sake of all fingers involved), flick from the fingers, NOT the elbow (which will increase the landing force of your flicks while opening your hand to a pinky-breaking stophit...), and keep your guard below your opponent's.

Good flicks can earn you Ooohs and Aaaahs. Bad flicks can earn you return favors...

[LordShout]

I've had more luck with flicks in epee then foil so I'll try and give some basic advice.

It's not a whipping motion, it's not a whipping motion, it is not a whipping motion at all.

What you want to do is extend your hand forward through a tube while allowing your fingers to push your tip back towards you (without exposing target area.) To accomplish the first part, if you're hand is perpendicular to rotate it around your palm so that your pinky is moving up and your thumb back and down, while pushing the hand forward. This loads the flick. To actually perform the flick you reverse the inbalance. The arm must come to a stop a brief moment before the hand finishes reversing.

This all must be done in one fluid motion, any breaks or wiggles will destroy the momentum build and transfer and produce a failed flick.

Troubleshooting:

Problem: My flick just swats the blade down
You're probably not loading and pushing, your just waving the blade forward, or your hand is rotating before the arm stops, or the momentum transfer is broke, or your not loading it enough, or you have weak fingers and aren't imparting a great enough force to actually flick the blade.

Problem: I'm getting hit on the hand while flicking
You're bringing your arm up, solution, this isn't foil the entire motion is a forward extension, load it with the fingers (you might drop your hand a half inch or so becuase this rotation will expose the bottom of your hand) and unload it with you fingers, arm does nothing but extend.

Problem: My flick has sideways components, aka the blade wobbles to the side or curves
You're not keeping your hand straight up and down, if your hand is straight up and down the entire time and this still happens your extension/rotation is not happening in the same plane. Or possibly your blade is just bent funny.

The flick can be performed in any rotation of the zxy plane (z being from floor to ceiling x being from back to front, y being side to side) however if you really want a good solid deep flick (not a hard flick but one with good curve to get around a bellguard) you need to only move in two of the three dimensions.

ZX being the usual choice, forward and down. Properly down your tip will do a modified figure 8. I've seen good side flicks but they are much harder to perform, until you can consistently land gentle straight updown flicks don't bother with sideflicks, much harder to coordinate because you have to perform a zy rotation and counter rotation to set the tip.

[Jay Young]

Great reply, LordAwe. Rep for you!

[AdamH]

Lordshout, excellent post.

Carlos, distance. MrBiggs and Telkanuru have said it and it's just so important I'll say it again; you have to work on your sense of distance.

Your first successful flicks to wrist and forearm will come when you know your opponent will be in the right position and you can read the distance so you know you have a good chance of performing this action.

The action itself is far, far more softer than you might expect it to be. If you have seen or felt fencers with a good flick but a 'stiff' or opposing blade after they have flicked, it's because they are already moving onto their next action, eg a straight remise. They flicked with a softer hand, then tensed a little more for the next action. The flick is relatively softer.

At it's simplest, you have read your opponent, you know you are going for a flick, you move into distance and you do the flick and you have your escape/remise already ready.

It is very difficult to successfully change the target you are flicking to once you have started the action. You are the flick and your feet move your whole body (ie, the flick platform) into the right distance. A lot of people flick at exactly the same distance every time and spend the rest of the time maneuvering to create that distance.

Like the lazy man's step-lunge (you step, I lunge) you can try something similar with the epee flick to wrist/forearm: Flick wrist once *Bing* (expecting fail), retract, escape. Flick wrist twice in quick succession, *BingBing* (expecting fail), retract, escape. Flick wrist twice *BingBing* (expecting fail), leave your weapon out and with any luck your opponent closes distance and you get an easy remise as your opponent advances/lunges/fleches onto your point.

At least now you have a use for the flick. When you do start scoring touches with the delicate flick to the wrist/forearm the important thing is not to look surprised.

[Pescados666]

I'm going to assume you're using a pistol grip? Different with different types of grips. I find it much harder to do with a French then with a pistol.