NAC F - Portland, OR

[KD5MDK]

Places to eat within walking distance of the venue that will be open to 10pm. In Charlotte at JOs I had excellent meal experiences except for Sunday where everywhere we tried was closed except for an unimpressive crowded pizza joint filled with screaming kids, at like 6pm. Very disappointed in that day.

[Rock]

Thanks for the response. Walking distance is not a major consideration because the light rail is at the venue and is free. Downtown Portland is on the other side of the Willamette River -> #1 -about 6 minutes from the convention center, and -> #2. "Willamette" is pronounced "wi LA ("a" like in apple) mut". (It's a weird spelling of a Chinook Indian name.)

A more important consideration is "what kind of food do your want?.

In case everything goes wrong, there's a Denny's 2 blocks from the convention center open 24 hours.

Rock

[BrianH]

#2. "Willamette" is pronounced "wi LA ("a" like in apple) mut".

In a Greg Brown song, he correctly rhymes Willamette with damnit. Just so you know how to say it.

[fencerwallet]

I have an open day in Portland. Someone mentioned a haunted town at the end/beginning of the Oregon Trail. Any info?

[teacup]

Unlike other NAC's the number of fencers per event is relatively small but why is the earliest close of check in still 8:00 AM?

Especially on Friday when mask check closes Thursday night at 6:00 PM. I am sure many fencers will be arriving late Thursday evening. (It would give more time for set up too.)

Usually the reason given is because the largest event needs to go out first but on Friday, Men's Epee is the largest with 59 fencers with no repachage. The total number of fencers starting at 8:00 is only 175; total for the day is 232. Won't everything be done pretty early?

Y14 Men's foil on Monday is the biggest event with 112 fencers.

There is still time to change Friday's check in times to 9:00 AM. I don't think many would complain about an extra hour sleep and time to check equipment.

[DJ Apostrophe]

Unlike other NAC's the number of fencers per event is relatively small but why is the earliest close of check in still 8:00 AM?

Especially on Friday when mask check closes Thursday night at 6:00 PM. I am sure many fencers will be arriving late Thursday evening. (It would give more time for set up too.)

Usually the reason given is because the largest event needs to go out first but on Friday, Men's Epee is the largest with 59 fencers with no repachage. The total number of fencers starting at 8:00 is only 175; total for the day is 232. Won't everything be done pretty early?

Y14 Men's foil on Monday is the biggest event with 112 fencers.

There is still time to change Friday's check in times to 9:00 AM. I don't think many would complain about an extra hour sleep and time to check equipment.

Although I agree with you that 8:00AM is obnoxiously early, and that the schedule could have been slid an hour so that the early starts were 9:00AM (except maybe on Saturday), there is NO WAY that the check in times could be changed now, less than 72 hours before the start of the event!

Although it doesn't seem like much, an hour on the other end for people who are trying to get out of there could (and most likely would) mean missed flights, more missed work and school days, etc. You've set a schedule that people have planned around, you now need to stick to it.

Keep in mind, that these words are coming from someone who will be in the venue before almost everyone reading this post and will leave the venue after almost everyone reading this post, every day... Yes, I'd love an extra hour of sleep each day, but it isn't going to happen.

-w

[teacup]

Although I agree with you that 8:00AM is obnoxiously early, and that the schedule could have been slid an hour so that the early starts were 9:00AM (except maybe on Saturday), there is NO WAY that the check in times could be changed now, less than 72 hours before the start of the event!

Although it doesn't seem like much, an hour on the other end for people who are trying to get out of there could (and most likely would) mean missed flights, more missed work and school days, etc. You've set a schedule that people have planned around, you now need to stick to it.

Keep in mind, that these words are coming from someone who will be in the venue before almost everyone reading this post and will leave the venue after almost everyone reading this post, every day... Yes, I'd love an extra hour of sleep each day, but it isn't going to happen.

-w

Do you know the answer to any of these questions? Was it even considered making close of check in later? They calculate event end times so won't they be done early Friday? Or maybe they have a small venue and only a few strips but then times would have been staggered throughout the day. And were equipment check considerations discussed? Won't they need to wait to start until everyone is through the equipment check line? So they probably won't start fencing until 9:00 or later anyway. Unfortunately, it doesn't give fencers a lot of time to warm up and it gives an advantage to those that are able to arrive by 6:00 PM Thursday.

As for making a later check in, isn't everyone advised NOT to fly out the same day? This also being the reason why estimated end of event times are not given? So why not give out end of event times?

[AndrewH]

Won't they need to wait to start until everyone is through the equipment check line?

Ha! ha! ha... oh it's not really that funny is it.

[fencerwallet]

An 8:00 a.m close of check in for a west coast event is not nearly as brutal as an 8:00 a.m. east coast check in. Those are killers for those of us coming from the west.

[teacup]

An 8:00 a.m close of check in for a west coast event is not nearly as brutal as an 8:00 a.m. east coast check in. Those are killers for those of us coming from the west.

Totally agreed!! Especially events for team selection. This season Dec, Jan. and Feb were all in the eastern time zone. Although Portland is in the west, results will be used for senior team selection but will not used for junior or cadet team selection next season.

Though I am not aware of all of the circumstances as to why close of check in times were chosen and I hope that there were excellent reasons, unfortunately, I speculate that 8:00AM check in times were determined because that is the way things have always been done.

Starting an hour later would have been much more appreciated than the difference of finishing at 4:00 or 5:00 PM. (It would be wonderful to see the end of time estimates.)

[DJ Apostrophe]

Do you know the answer to any of these questions? Was it even considered making close of check in later?

I don't know, you'd have to ask someone on the Tournament Committee, they come up with the schedule.

They calculate event end times so won't they be done early Friday?

Friday is actually supposed to be pretty early. (4:30ish I think, but not sure)

Or maybe they have a small venue and only a few strips but then times would have been staggered throughout the day.

44 strip venue, schedule has open strips through almost the whole weekend (a couple times in the middle of the day Saturday and Sunday we MIGHT be using all 44).

And were equipment check considerations discussed?

Again, a TC question.

Won't they need to wait to start until everyone is through the equipment check line? So they probably won't start fencing until 9:00 or later anyway.

The venue opens at 7:00AM, and there are only 175 people total in the first launch. 59 Epee, 50 Foil, and 66 Sabre. Unfortunately, the largest number is Sabre, which takes the most time to check equipment. (Talking to Al Merritt a couple weekends ago, he said that it takes Xmins to check an epee fencer's stuff, 2Xmins to check a foil fencer's stuff, and 3Xmins to check a sabre fencer's stuff) However, it's the fastest to fence. If we have to hold anything due to equipment check, it will probably be the sabre events, but in reality, we shouldn't have to... it isn't a lot of people to check.

Unfortunately, it doesn't give fencers a lot of time to warm up and it gives an advantage to those that are able to arrive by 6:00 PM Thursday.

I think this argument can be made for any NAC, and people need to plan for it. Or have a coach, parent, friend who isn't fencing at 8AM get the equipment checked for them if it's really that big of an issue.

As for making a later check in, isn't everyone advised NOT to fly out the same day? This also being the reason why estimated end of event times are not given? So why not give out end of event times?

Athletes are advised not to fly out the day of their event. But you know what? They do anyway. And they often have tight flights to catch. Referees however, are told what time they can leave on the last day, and most of them book flights pretty close to that time. By shifting the day by an hour this late in the game, you may lose a very large chunk of referees on the last day right when you need them most (fencers as well). Releasing event end times is something that is not done because it's so easy for them to become VERY wrong. If one thing goes wrong in one event (read: half hour long protest over a black card) it can have a domino effect on all the other events for the rest of the day. If you release end times, there's an expectation that you'll be close to them. You'll only anger more people when you don't end up making those times.

In short, I agree with you. The early check in time should have been 9:00 (with the possible exception of Saturday). However, now that the schedule has been set for some time, it is really too late to change it.

-w

[teacup]

I don't know, you'd have to ask someone on the Tournament Committee, they come up with the schedule.-w

Thank you so much for all of your answers especially since you are not on the tournament committee.

Friday is actually supposed to be pretty early. (4:30ish I think, but not sure)

44 strip venue, schedule has open strips through almost the whole weekend (a couple times in the middle of the day Saturday and Sunday we MIGHT be using all 44).-w

Due to the fact that it is the championships couldn't the TC have anticipated that the turnout would be smaller. Perhaps this could have been a three day NAC like the one in December helping fencers attend for both time and financial reasons since this NAC is not scheduled around a holiday.

As for start times, those aren't even posted until after end of entry so they know how many confirmed entries there are.

Again, a TC question.
The venue opens at 7:00AM, and there are only 175 people total in the first launch. 59 Epee, 50 Foil, and 66 Sabre. Unfortunately, the largest number is Sabre, which takes the most time to check equipment. (Talking to Al Merritt a couple weekends ago, he said that it takes Xmins to check an epee fencer's stuff, 2Xmins to check a foil fencer's stuff, and 3Xmins to check a sabre fencer's stuff) However, it's the fastest to fence. If we have to hold anything due to equipment check, it will probably be the sabre events, but in reality, we shouldn't have to... it isn't a lot of people to check.

I think this argument can be made for any NAC, and people need to plan for it. Or have a coach, parent, friend who isn't fencing at 8AM get the equipment checked for them if it's really that big of an issue.
-w

Yes, it is always best and recommended to fly in early the day before and fly out the day after the event but as everyone knows, the reality is people have work/school and money issues. Friday is the first day so things are still being sorted out and equipment check isn't held late Thursday. If a fencer does want to arrive early Thursday, two days of school/work may be missed. It is especially sad that the TC did not schedule start times an hour later at least for Fridays because of these reasons. Why disadvantage the first days' fencers?

So yes, people do plan for the fact that fencing will not actually start for an hour or more, particularly the first day of events. It would be nice to give fencers an actual start time. Standing in the equipment line is stressful, with fencers unable to warm up and not knowing exactly when events will start. If starting later on the first day would help this.... why not?

Athletes are advised not to fly out the day of their event. But you know what? They do anyway. And they often have tight flights to catch. Referees however, are told what time they can leave on the last day, and most of them book flights pretty close to that time. By shifting the day by an hour this late in the game, you may lose a very large chunk of referees on the last day right when you need them most (fencers as well). Releasing event end times is something that is not done because it's so easy for them to become VERY wrong. If one thing goes wrong in one event (read: half hour long protest over a black card) it can have a domino effect on all the other events for the rest of the day. If you release end times, there's an expectation that you'll be close to them. You'll only anger more people when you don't end up making those times.

In short, I agree with you. The early check in time should have been 9:00 (with the possible exception of Saturday). However, now that the schedule has been set for some time, it is really too late to change it.

-w

You are right, it is too late to change now but in the case of individual events, these are close of check in times, NOT start times. And as you pointed out, people assume that events will start late. There is still time to give fencers a START time. Even announcing one Friday morning would be helpful.

As for flying out the same day, of course this is reality too, but again in the case of Friday, Saturday is not a school/work day for many and it is not the last day of the event, so fewer people rush out on Friday and Saturday nights. I wouldn't suggest changing the close of check in Monday since many people know that the TC is trying to get out of there and flying out early Monday is not unreasonable.

Unfortunately, I may be wrong but my main disappointment is that it may not have been done because it hasn't been done that way in the past. Hopefully next season, the TC will be open to new ideas.

Thank you again for your comments.

[KD5MDK]

I think the projection was for far more youth entries than actually occurred. An email sent to referees said that they anticipated up to 250 in Y14ME. Obviously we haven't met that number (84).

[teacup]

I think the projection was for far more youth entries than actually occurred. An email sent to referees said that they anticipated up to 250 in Y14ME. Obviously we haven't met that number (84).

Okay, that explains the four day event but not the early close of check in times for Friday which are determined after confirmed entries.

As to why the ME turnout is lower, my guess it is because this four day NAC is not scheduled around a holiday, the increased number of SYC's this season, four vs three last season, and the fact that Summer Nationals are also on the West Coast.

Just out of curiosity, do you know if the number of women fencers, in particular WE fencers, was the same, more or less than anticipated?

My personal opinion is that SYC attendance should be even more encouraged so that eventually the only national youth event is a youth championship event either in April or Summer Nationals. Taking Y14 out of the November NAC would not only lower the numbers of entrants but raise the calibre of Jr and Cadet. (Many Y14 fencers fence Jr. and Cadet because why not, they are already there.)

Bottom line, with the increased use of SYC's and perhaps even a cadet circuit, there are different ways to configure the national events to make things better for many different groups.

[teacup]

Since all the events will probably be over early today, and maybe every day, I wonder how late they will stay Friday and Saturday to do equipment checks?

[seven6ty]

Anybody have any updates on men's epee yet? Ok, so pools are probably just barely over, but I'm curious, damnit!

[teacup]

Anybody have any updates on men's epee yet? Ok, so pools are probably just barely over, but I'm curious, damnit!

Are you kidding they are probably almost done by now. They were in the 16 by noon.

I think these are some of the top 8.
Eric Hansen
Soren Thompson
Seth Kelsey
Garrett Carnahan
Dwight Smith
Cody Mattern

[seven6ty]

Looks like a pretty good top 8.

[teacup]

Top 4
Eric Hansen
Soren Thompson
Seth Kelsey
Cody Mattern

[seven6ty]

Awww ****. You know who the top four were, coming out of pools?