What's in it for the Parents?

[dberke]

Originally Posted by T

And perhaps still that is not enough reason for all parents to join. But I would suggest that they still have a valid seat at the national table if enough of them do. I also suspect that if there was a way to enfranchise them and involve them, many would join. Right now, mostly they feel marginalized so they really, don't care. If you look at the poll results (albeit extremely small sample, unscientific, etc.) that category has as many votes as discount travel and equipment.

I guess I'm confused - is the goal to recruit parents in order to raise money for the USFA by expanding the membership rolls, or is it to give parents more political power at the national level? If the goal is to raise money, then I think you would want to target the larger population of non-competing fencers and their parents. (Any package offered to those fencers and parents to join would probably also appeal to parents of kids already involved.) If the goal is to just give the parents voting power, perhaps grant the parent of each competitive child a free membership or a proxy vote.

Originally Posted by T

Can the parents contribute at the local level? Yes, in many instances unless the political power-base is being misapprorpiately manipulated. And, I know many parents are involved at that level (although with the discussion of the scheduling of the Sectionals and the SATs, it would seem that many parents aren't being heard).

I would argue that if things are still not working well for parents at the divisional level, they need to get more involved. For example, if the division officers are ignoring requests to avoid SAT dates, parents should organize and run for a division officer position. A role as a division officer will also give them the chance to get involved with other aspects of the sport beyond just what their kid is involved in.

Originally Posted by T

However, few major directional decisions are made at the local or sectional level. The SYC and RYC, local youth competitions, etc. have some effect but again, these are competitions and involve no decisions about overall direction of the youth movement in this country. So, the parents are forced to accept what is given them.

So, it is more about perspective and point-of-view than revenue.

I agree that parents should have representation at the national level, and based on what you wrote, it sounds like they need to get involved with the existing Youth Development Committee. I think that has been one of the more effective committees out there considering the success of the RYC program. If you were thinking of a separate, new committee, what would its charter be?

[Edit:]
I just saw your post about transferring knowledge to new parents as being one responsibility of a Parent's Committee. Does that job require a new committee, or would that fall under the resposibility of the YDC? If a new committee is created, what other areas would it be responsible for?

Dan

[T]

The idea of getting parents to become USFA members was primarily so that they could take an active roll in their kid's sport - especially considering how much money they spend at it. In addition, it is a way to increase the revenue from membership fees. You're not confused - there are 2 purposes 1) increasing revenue and 2) increasing the active involvement of parents.

I like JEC's idea about the legacy life membership for kids (that also issues one noncompetitive membership for the parent who bought it). This is an attractive item that could increase revenue as well.

I also agree that there are other non-USFA fencers out there that would be a good source of revenue in terms of membership rolls (this could be whole other discussion).

In general, the USFA needs to develop programs that sustain membership growth in a variety of categories.

I also agree that the Youth Development Committee has been quite successful considering the growth and development of the SYC and RYC events. More of the USFA committees should be so productive!

But I see a Parent's Committee as dealing with parental support issues and not the directly the competitive issues. My understanding is that the Youth Development Committee deals with competitive issues such as the RYC and SYC (plz correct me if I'm wrong). The Parents, however, have other needs which relate specifically to their role as parents of fencers (which include much more than RYCs and SYCs). After all is said and done, the committee may best be an advisory committee but none-the-less, there are issues that need to be addressed from their perspective. Perhaps this concept could be included in an expanded YDC and I would certainly be open to that possibility. My only concern is that by definition, youth is 10-14 year olds. Many of the issues that parents face are in the cadet and junior years as this is where things really start to get expensive and time consuming. There aren't too many 14 year olds traveling to Europe. I'm not sure how this age difference would be treated if it were incorporated into the YDC.

[oiuyt]

Note that we have had a Parents Committee in the past, although it appears currently to be dormant.

Linda Merritt (current USFA Secretary and a "fencing parent" involved at our highest levels of governance) and Catherine Marchand headed it up last quad and co-wrote the very good "Parent Guide to Fencing."

It could use updating, but it's still a good resource for new fencers/families (including for those not involved with youth or junior fencing).

A reconstructed Parents Committee would be a much better approach than tossing these tasks to the YDC.

All of the committees need to be examined. We have a number that are dormant. If they're necessary then we need to revitalize them. If they're not then we need to dissolve them. We additionally need to examine our needs and determine what new committees are necessary or useful and then identify candidate members. The tasking of every committee, existing and new, should be looked at and, if warranted, adjusted to our current and future needs.

All committees should be expected to report minimally at every BoD meeting, without exception. Even if that report is merely a short status note explicitly stating that they have taken no action since the previous meeting. The current status quo where roughly half of the committees fail to report at any given meeting -- and many of the committees almost NEVER report -- is unacceptable.

-B

[Capt. Slo-mo]

T and others:

One thing I'd like to see the USFA adopt in the next quadrennial is the USOC-style position of "Athlete Ombudsman." In essence, a point person to help resolve athlete-related issues of disagreement, unfairness or wrong-doing.

When an athlete has a serious dispute within the organization, and is told by the highest levels of authority in the USFA: "Sure, we could follow the paper trail, and maybe "Official X" is lying to you, but what difference would it make?" then there definitely needs to be another level of oversight.

[Fencing Mom]

I have been a USFA member for most of the last ten years –middle school thru college for the fencer-kid. I think getting involved at the divisional level, attending and being engaged at regional, sectional, and national tournaments, and even signing the membership form takes a bit of courage for the parent who has no prior knowledge of fencing. For me, it was easy to volunteer at school, scouts, and church; I have experience and understanding of these endeavors. But fencing was a whole different world. It can be intimidating. I think it may be that way for many parents.

I also think the intimidation is intentional on the part of some… maybe many…. coaches/club owners and divisional and sectional officers. I’ve seen parents afraid to question bout committees (or encourage their fencers to do so) when their kids are unjustifiably threatened with a card for an uncardable offense, or seeded incorrectly, or just treated unfairly. As long as parents know their “place”, club owners/coaches/refs hold all the power. Club owners and coaches make decisions based on their own agendas, not necessarily based on what is best for the fencers. Sure, parents can stop paying club dues and tournament fees, but all too often, the club and tournament are the only games in town.

I’ve seen coaches shamelessly berate fencers for missing or being late for practice because the fencer was studying for a test or writing a paper. It’s understandable that fencers don’t stand up to coaches, but why do parents not advocate for their kids? Unfortunately and understandably, I believe too many parents are a bit fearful of an accent, a hard-a$$ attitude, and a sprinkling of foreign words. Heck, there are many posters on this website who think parents should just stay out of it, as if the love and support we demonstrate for our kids and the thousands we’ve spent on this sport entitle us to nothing.

Educating parents about fencing would go a long way towards making the fencing experience better for parents and fencers. Knowledge is, after all, power. Parents need more of a say in how their children are being treated in this sport. How about if signing an associate membership form for the first time entitled you to the updated “Parents’ Guide to Fencing” or some such publication. I like the idea of seminars – particularly during the endless days of summer nationals. How about a parents’ support or advocacy group, as well as reactivating the official parents’ committee? How about support available at the local level, something that is completely independent of the division and its nasty politics? (just a rudimentary idea). If any initiatives for parents are to be attempted, I wouldn’t mind being involved.

[T]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

T and others:

One thing I'd like to see the USFA adopt in the next quadrennial is the USOC-style position of "Athlete Ombudsman." In essence, a point person to help resolve athlete-related issues of disagreement, unfairness or wrong-doing.

When an athlete has a serious dispute within the organization, and is told by the highest levels of authority in the USFA: "Sure, we could follow the paper trail, and maybe "Official X" is lying to you, but what difference would it make?" then there definitely needs to be another level of oversight.

I totally hear you on this one. And I am extremely disappointed in the High Performance Committee (and some staff/officials) on many issues. It appears that they have some immunity on acting with any kind of transparency or even by the rules (in some cases) and even lack common courtesy -- refusing to even acknowledge emails that question a decision.

An Athlete Ombudsman would be a welcomed addition to the USFA political power and I agree, it is a needed buffer. We need to incorporate a sense of fair-play; we may not agree with all decisions but at least there needs to be a reasonable justification besides - 'because we said so and we're not changing our minds'.

[T]

Originally Posted by Fencing Mom

As long as parents know their “place”, club owners/coaches/refs hold all the power. Club owners and coaches make decisions based on their own agendas, not necessarily based on what is best for the fencers. Sure, parents can stop paying club dues and tournament fees, but all too often, the club and tournament are the only games in town.

... Heck, there are many posters on this website who think parents should just stay out of it, as if the love and support we demonstrate for our kids and the thousands we’ve spent on this sport entitle us to nothing.

Educating parents about fencing would go a long way towards making the fencing experience better for parents and fencers. Knowledge is, after all, power. Parents need more of a say in how their children are being treated in this sport. How about if signing an associate membership form for the first time entitled you to the updated “Parents’ Guide to Fencing” or some such publication. I like the idea of seminars – particularly during the endless days of summer nationals. How about a parents’ support or advocacy group, as well as reactivating the official parents’ committee? How about support available at the local level, something that is completely independent of the division and its nasty politics? (just a rudimentary idea). If any initiatives for parents are to be attempted, I wouldn’t mind being involved.

I agree with this as well - knowledge is power. The more parents know, the more active they can be without being shamed into a passive behavior by some 'know-it-all".

I will keep you in mind in a few months to help us out on the new and improved Parents' committee.

[dcmdale]

Even if seminars at NACs won't work for logistic reasons, even an eNewletter specifically for Member Parents would be attractive. Especially if it were timed appropriately around the NAC registration schedule. While this would likely be more valuable to beginning parents than the experienced ones, it would provide a sense that they were getting *something* for their money and would provide a communication vehicle to the parents that doesn't exist today.

* When I was in law school, one of the things that they drilled into us was that clients will always complain about paying for a 15 minute phone call because they think of phone calls as a freebie, but the same clients will rarely complain about a paying for 25 minutes for "phone call plus confirming letter" because they have some work product in their hand. Same principle here.

[dcmdale]

Originally Posted by Fencing Mom

I have been a USFA member for most of the last ten years –middle school thru college for the fencer-kid. I think getting involved at the divisional level, attending and being engaged at regional, sectional, and national tournaments, and even signing the membership form takes a bit of courage for the parent who has no prior knowledge of fencing. For me, it was easy to volunteer at school, scouts, and church; I have experience and understanding of these endeavors. But fencing was a whole different world. It can be intimidating. I think it may be that way for many parents.

Agreed. In one club we were involved with early on, USFA membership was "included" in club membership (and was effectively covered by a yearly "signup" fee). I am sure that the main purpose was that if the fencer didn't actually compete that the club owner would pocket the money, but the secondary impact was that the club owner filled out the forms, further insulating us from the USFA. We didn't even know that there was a parent's membership option until we changed clubs. There were apparently divisional meetings, which nobody attended because they weren't announced (at least to the parents). The two club owners in the division pretty much owned what happened, who competed, and who could be involved. I think that much of the abuse mentioned by you and Oso97 and others on this thread go back to the fact that at least some club owners are gatekeepers to everything USFA and that is a power that can be abused.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by T

An Athlete Ombudsman would be a welcomed addition to the USFA political power and I agree, it is a needed buffer. We need to incorporate a sense of fair-play; we may not agree with all decisions but at least there needs to be a reasonable justification besides - 'because we said so and we're not changing our minds'.

Bold emphasis mine.

Would it not be better if the athlete ombudsman (Note: Swedish word) were outside the USFA structure? All Swedish sports NGB´s of any size, Olympic and non-Olympic alike, are member of the Central Swedish Sports Federation, RF. (The few small ones which are not always petition to get let into the fold.) Many Swedish sports NGB´s have an ombudsman function. However, RF also has people tasked with doing the same thing, and they have real power - they can override decisions taken within the individual NGB´s, and force NGB officials to do stuff that the latter do not wish to do. That extra layer of control keeps the worst guys in line.

Would it not be good to have something similar in the USA sports system? After all, it is so difficult to believe that similar problems (as the ones decribed and attested to here on f.net) have not been experienced by parents of top-level youth athletes in other sports? Why not network with your counterparts in table tennis, volleyball, etc. in order to get a Ombudsman function set up in the central administration of USOC?


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Peter:

There is an ombudsman position in the US Olympic Committee structure, and he can, if asked, attempt to intervene for an athlete in a dispute with an NGB of a sport. However; he/she has no actual power over US Fencing, and in the case of the internal power structures of an NGB, if the ombudsman is stonewalled, that's pretty much it.

That's why I would hope an ombudsman tasked specifically and solely to the USFA might have more influence. Wishful thinking, but maybe worth a try.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Why not try to increase the power of the already-existing position, first and foremost? Would not the present occupant of that position like that, and work with you? Would there not be scores of parents in other sports to bond with for that worthy endeavour? Would not that person have a freer position in egad to USFA (and other NGB´s), and thus be less inclined to suck up to powers-that-be?

Power - since USFA gets a considerable part of its revenue from USOC, would not witholding the money be sufficient as a motivator?

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Peter:

There is an ombudsman position in the US Olympic Committee structure, and he can, if asked, attempt to intervene for an athlete in a dispute with an NGB of a sport. However; he/she has no actual power over US Fencing, and in the case of the internal power structures of an NGB, if the ombudsman is stonewalled, that's pretty much it.

That's why I would hope an ombudsman tasked specifically and solely to the USFA might have more influence. Wishful thinking, but maybe worth a try.

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[oso97]

[quote=PeterGustafsson;674706
Power - since USFA gets a considerable part of its revenue from USOC, would not witholding the money be sufficient as a motivator?
[/QUOTE]

A significant portion of the USFA's financial woes are already due to the fact that the USOC is already cagey and capricious with its funding - or so the USFA Executive Director has told us.

[KD5MDK]

I don't think that giving the USOC more power over the USFA will improve the status of the non-elite athletes (and their parents) at all, if it won't actively decrease it. Certainly there's a number of people whose lives are so engaged with USFA affairs like T and Capt. Slo-mo who need better communication and support, but there's a lot of people below them as well, and an outside entity would probably find it hard to balance needs fairly.

[lauralitz]

My child is a younger fencer who is competing nationally. I joined the USFA this season so that I could be more involved at the Divisional level. I was surprised that my child's membership did not allow me to vote for her.

I have learned so much from the parents at the club that have come before me. I try to help new parents in any way I can. (we have even put on talks at our club for new parents)

International competition seems to be a mystery to me, but I will learn when/if it becomes necessary for me to learn.

I would be interested in learning more about running tournaments and helping out.

I checked the online seminar box because I think it would reach more parents that way.

LL

[T]

Hi lauralitz,

As your experience suggests, Parents learn from Parents. Knowledge is passed from one to another on (for the most part) an informal basis.

Helping our at tournaments is a great way for parents to get involved and to socialize with other parents and officials.

One of the proposals in our 'Pipeline' program is to train parents to run or help run tournaments. This training would take place while you kid is attending a regional camp over a weekend that wouldn't be too far from home. This means that you could learn to run a competition, while you kid gets in some quality bouting. In addition, you can keep an eye on your kid after the camp is over instead of entrusting their care to someone you barely know.

Online training can also be a useful tool with tutorials, etc.