USFA 08: We have election.

[noodle]

The problem with online elections is that those without easy internet access or ability to use computers would feel disenfranchised. You also cannot count on e-mail addresses obtained a year ago to still be valid today. People sometimes check their e-mail infrequently or stop using a particular address altogether, but the address still accepts the mail, giving no "reject" information to the sender.

set up a "voting booth" (laptop with wifi) at SN's. problem solved.

never said i'd rely on email addresses. in fact, i'd definitely NOT rely on email addresses.

[jjefferies]

The problem with online elections is that those without easy internet access or ability to use computers would feel disenfranchised. You also cannot count on e-mail addresses obtained a year ago to still be valid today. People sometimes check their e-mail infrequently or stop using a particular address altogether, but the address still accepts the mail, giving no "reject" information to the sender.

Eh, most libraries now provide internet access without charge (another good reason for visiting your local library). I suggest that all one would need is your USFA membership number and perhaps a credit card number for checking.

But still the people who've stood in the way of having on line registration would probably block any use of the net for elections as well.

[Philistine]

I'd think the easiest and cheapest way to conduct the election is to do it in conjunction with American Fencing Magazine. Without changing the bylaws, you could do it by making sure in an election year the magazine went out at the right time and contained the ballot (in a tear-out page) and other required material in the body of the magazine, with a return envelope (without postage) tucked inside.

With very small bylaw changes, you can eliminate the necessity for a return envelope, and potentially otherwise make it easier.

You'll probably get a few more votes from people who aren't eligible, but receive the magazine anyway--but you need to watch for those types of votes anyway, so I don't see that as a big downside.

My $.02, anyway.

--Philistine

[T]

I'd think the easiest and cheapest way to conduct the election is to do it in conjunction with American Fencing Magazine. Without changing the bylaws, you could do it by making sure in an election year the magazine went out at the right time and contained the ballot (in a tear-out page) and other required material in the body of the magazine, with a return envelope (without postage) tucked inside.

With very small bylaw changes, you can eliminate the necessity for a return envelope, and potentially otherwise make it easier.

You'll probably get a few more votes from people who aren't eligible, but receive the magazine anyway--but you need to watch for those types of votes anyway, so I don't see that as a big downside.

My $.02, anyway.

--Philistine

Nice idea, Philistine. I'm going to write this one down for future use and I'll be sure to give you credit for saving the USFA some big $$ in election years! And I think it is worth way more than 2 cents.

[catwood1]

I will admit, I don't care who is doing what except for voting for Greg to hold the wallet. As long as he is in charge of the money the rest can be whomever. Don't know if he will have a name opposite his on the ballet but if he does, his last name better be Greenspan, first name Alan.

Amen brudda

[noodle]

Nice idea, Philistine. I'm going to write this one down for future use and I'll be sure to give you credit for saving the USFA some big $$ in election years! And I think it is worth way more than 2 cents.

i'd like to note my objection to this, as i've still not gotten any AmFence magazines from this past year, despite being a member since the start of the season (and getting NAC entry confirmations at the correct address on time).

[oiuyt]

i'd like to note my objection to this, as i've still not gotten any AmFence magazines from this past year, despite being a member since the start of the season (and getting NAC entry confirmations at the correct address on time).

To be fair, presumably the mailing addresses used for AF are from the same list as the one that will be used for sending out ballots.

I'd pop off a note to membership@usfencing.org and see what they have listed for you, including details of the issue.

-B
*Notes that I recently received my first copy of Escrime magazine after 2 years of FIE membership (since my most recent lapse)*

[KD5MDK]

I should hope they're not perfectly identical. There are of course lots of USFA members who are under 18 and do receive American Fencing, and several non-members who have subscriptions just to American Fencing.

[noodle]

i can come up with quite a number of reasons why simply including a ballot with AmFence is a bad idea.

[oiuyt]

I should hope they're not perfectly identical. There are of course lots of USFA members who are under 18 and do receive American Fencing, and several non-members who have subscriptions just to American Fencing.

From the same (overall) list. Not an indentical list.

Thinking about it, another flaw is that family memberships receive a single copy of the magazine, but can have multiple members entitled to a vote.

I'm sure there are additional issues that we haven't listed yet here.

-B

[keith]

i can come up with quite a number of reasons why simply including a ballot with AmFence is a bad idea.

I would have been terribly disappointed if it had been otherwise.

[T]

I'm sure that the idea is not without flaws, shortcomings, etc. but it does provide for a new perspective and one possible solution to the problem and is worth an honest discussion at some point.

Most paper ballot systems using the US Postal Service and mailing lists, etc. are going to have problems. Online voting systems are not without shortcomings. These are problems that need to be minimized but they will never be eliminated.

For instance, you could include ballots in the Am Fencing magazine and accept copies returned. Names, ID info, membership #s, or a variety of other personal identification info will need to be used to validate any ballot so it probably isn't necessary to use an official ballot.

Ballots could also be downloaded off of the USFA website and, along with the appropriate and verifying personal info, could be mailed back (or given the current technology in use at the USFA, could be faxed back - unless you would require an original signature).

And as others have said before, we could use online voting.

All of these things are valid ideas that should be considered and discussed when the bylaws are ammended on this point.

Unfortunately, for this election, we have to use the US Postal Service, paper ballots, and mailing list labels. We also have to accept the limitations, flaws, and shortcomings of this type of voting system.

At least we won't have any hanging chads to worry about ...

FYI, we have a family membership and receive 4 copies of the magazine every single time.

[oso97]

FYI, we have a family membership and receive 4 copies of the magazine every single time.

*nods* we get three - one for each of the individual memberships and one for the club membership...

[oiuyt]

*nods* we get three - one for each of the individual memberships and one for the club membership...

That makes sense to me.

FYI, we have a family membership and receive 4 copies of the magazine every single time.

That, on the other hand, doesn't fit my understanding of how things are supposed to work.

Per the membership report on the USFA website, all four of you are listed as competitive members. Are you certain that you have a family membership?

-B

[T]

Actually, I believe we have 2 family memberships since only 2 people can be competitive members per 'family'. I have switched back and forth over the years but I think that is the way it is this year.

Either way, it never seemed to matter with respect to the number of magazines we got though.

[KD5MDK]

You know, if anyone was a candidate for a Supporting Life membership, I think someone(s) in your household would qualify...

[oiuyt]

Actually, I believe we have 2 family memberships since only 2 people can be competitive members per 'family'. I have switched back and forth over the years but I think that is the way it is this year.

Either way, it never seemed to matter with respect to the number of magazines we got though.

Makes sense.

Although to continue the thread drift, that still should have resulted in only 2 subscriptions.

Also possible that it was mis-recorded, especially considering that 2 competitive memberships are the same cost as 1 family membership with 2 competitive members.

-B

[oiuyt]

You know, if anyone was a candidate for a Supporting Life membership, I think someone(s) in your household would qualify...

Kelly will earn an Olympic Life membership starting next season.

-B

[KD5MDK]

When did the life membership/supporting life membership get created? My impression is that it's cheaper to get one if you plan to be a member for more than 10 years (given each year of an SL is approximately 1/2 of a current anual membership). Bob's probably been an AFLA/USFA member for a couple decades.

(Not that I want to meddle in a family's personal matters, but when you're something of a fencing dynasty you tend to stand out from the regular crowd.)

[Damon Scaggs]

When did the life membership/supporting life membership get created? My impression is that it's cheaper to get one if you plan to be a member for more than 10 years (given each year of an SL is approximately 1/2 of a current anual membership). Bob's probably been an AFLA/USFA member for a couple decades.

(Not that I want to meddle in a family's personal matters, but when you're something of a fencing dynasty you tend to stand out from the regular crowd.)

I'm not exactly sure when they got created, but I've been a life member for a good dozen years. Might even be fifteen.