Wierd french foil tip OR Where the heck do they find this stuff?

[Morion]

I got a foil in for repair from one of the kids in the club this week. The usual intermittant white light problem. When I went to tighten the barrel the first thing I noticed was that there were no flat surfaces for the wrench to grip. Not common but not unheard of either. So I dissassembled the tip and something about the screws seemed odd. When I checked them against other tip screws I had they appeared to be roughly 30% to 50% larger in diameter. I played around with parts and only that particular tip and screws was going to work with that barrel. The "standard" parts that I have wouldn't function since the screws would bottom out on the tip because the holes in the barrel were too large. My solution was to rewire the blade and chuck the oddball parts. However, now I'm curious as to what this was that I encountered. I suspect it might have been a chinese knockoff of a french tip but I have no way of knowing for sure. Any ideas?

[Purple Fencer]

Possible....the lack of flats was something Prieur thought was smart...doh!

But the screws make it sound like a bad Chinese copy....

[bigdawg2121]

What about the new german tips with fully recessed screws?

[Purple Fencer]

What about the new german tips with fully recessed screws?

Doubt it....those barrels have flats for a wrench.

[SFfencer]

Sounds like the cheap Chinese ones I got from Athos.

[AdamH]

Big screws sounds like Chinese tip. I've seen two foil tips from Chinese manufacturers, both had bigger screws and completely rounded barrel.
That said, only had a chance to look inside one and this was German style, with the screws going through the barrel and then into screw holes on the inner barrel that jiggles up and down the thin part of the tip.

[SJCFU#2]

I remember seeing something similar to that a few years ago. Apparently a client had gotten a good deal on a bunch of wired blades for his club (never told me where). At the time I advised him that if he was going to stick with them he was going to need to maintain his own supply of spare parts because I didn't think he would be able to get them from just any vendor. IIRC they all ended up being replaced something a bit less unique.

[Mr Epee]

I ended up with a small batch of those blades (around 10) a few years back. They had tips that matched the description above. I don't remember exactly where I got them, but they worked fine for the price (iirc it was something around $7-9/ wired blade). Not long lasting, but very cheap. The tips were not quality, so we just threw them out when the blades broke. By the end of the experiment we felt we got more than our money's worth.

After a little thought, I think we got them from some website run by a russian named Alexandr (no 'e'). I had an idea at the time that the blades were russian... but who knows.

Crazy big heads on the screws and no wrench slots...... yep...

[remise]

I had quite a few complaints from fencers from my club who brought me weapons they'd purchased that were Chinese and had the same problem. There weren't parts from any other vendor that would fit.

I ended up doing what others here did - throwing out the tips as they expired, and telling fencers and parents of fencers if they wanted to purchase those cheap blades, they'd have to get spare parts as well. Now the only blades I see like that belong to newbies who don't know any better.

[fencerchica]

At the Rosemont NAC I encountered foil tips which had the little threaded holes in a moving collar like French tips do (god I hate those... so hard to get the screws started), yet which used grub screws that looked very much like Germans (except for turning out to be incompatible with Germans in diameter and probably in pitch as well) and had the German-style tip insulation with the sandwich of metal on the underside of the tip. Weird. Where does this stuff come from?

[fencerchica]

Big screws sounds like Chinese tip. I've seen two foil tips from Chinese manufacturers, both had bigger screws and completely rounded barrel.
That said, only had a chance to look inside one and this was German style, with the screws going through the barrel and then into screw holes on the inner barrel that jiggles up and down the thin part of the tip.

Ah, that sounds just like what I saw -- except that when that moveable collar on the tip has screw holes in it, that's a French/Prieur style. Real Germans/Uhlmann/Allstar have a moveable collar that just has a kind of groove running all the way around it to hold the screw, instead of a fixed hole for the screw. But yeah, the tips I saw were like a French/German hybrid, from the screw shape and the nature of the tip insulation. I bet they were Chinese.

[GypsyScot]

They're ripped off the AMD design and are usually called "A&D" (As Ted Li told me) they're not particularly Chinese, the design is Soviet from the 70s, they were usually made from aluminum and plastic (the bigger screws were also easier to machine) and is copied in Pakistan and some really, really bargin outfits.

Somebody at Cherry Blossom brought a few to me me last year the collars cracked on each one after about a weeks use.

[HDG]

Somebody at Cherry Blossom brought a few to me me last year the collars cracked on each one after about a weeks use.

Sounds like Soviet engineering...

[Purple Fencer]

Sounds like Soviet engineering...

Is not strong like tractor????

[HDG]

Is not strong like tractor????

Yes, and is reliable like Lada.

[Mr Epee]

Trabi > Lada

Trabi owns... Lada = bourgeios

Trabi 0 to 100 kmh (around 60mph) ..... 46 seconds. Szuper.

[HDG]

Trabi > Lada

Trabi owns... Lada = bourgeios

Trabi 0 to 100 kmh (around 60mph) ..... 46 seconds. Szuper.

Yeah, but I can't make a Soviet engineering joke about an East German car COMECON or not.

[Zmiter]

It looks you have the Soviet or old fashion French made pointes d'areet.
The Soviet foil pointes d'areet have 4 mm diam. tips as epee.
Construction of this pointes d'areet is the same as German. But barrel is bigger and rough. If it is the Soviet made try to use 4 mm tips. It helps.
Id better to comparise these pointes d'areet with the Soviet tank T-72 not with Lada. It is strong, reparable, long life and cheap. Very attractive for starter.

Old fashion French pointes d'areet are aslo bigger as German. The barrel is bright/polished. But it designed as epee pointes d'areet. The tips are screwed not to the barerl's body but to the pin.
Tips have a big cap. You will never find the alternative.

The Soviet and French pointes d'areet are too strong. I have both. They made in abt 1985-1990. Still work.

I sow the last models of German pointes d'areet. It made according to the epee constuction. It is a good idea to protect the tips.

[Blakeian]

Doubt it....those barrels have flats for a wrench.

And the screws are the same size (the one negative in my view).

[Zmiter]

Im sorry it was a mistake in my previous post. Tips are not 4 mm diameters.
It is the thread size of epee peak.
Time to time I get mixed the pedals of break and a accelerator:confused.
The Soviet foil pointes d'areet have 4 mm diam. tips as epee.
Construction of this pointes d'areet is the same as German. But barrel is bigger and rough. If it is the Soviet made try to use 4 mm tips.