A verbal circle jerk.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I'm not what you would call a "Coach", just somebody who teaches fencing to fund my drug habit. I just happen to pick up a few things here and there while I'm on the job.

And I think this section of the forum is a little ridiculous.

Fencing is not complicated. You hit the other guy with a stick.

If you want to get better, you bust your butt at practice, and you go to tournaments. You'll improve (and if you can't improve with practice and competition, then I'm sorry, but you suck and nothing in the world is going to make you a better fencer).

But I think many coaches on this board have some sort of fetish with the minor nuances of the sport.

Why worry about the proper lesson motivation-distance for a double-remise-counter-disengage-riposte when you don't have a boatload of motivated students busting their ass at practice and competing?

I swear to god, a few talented and motivated fencers practicing and competing together will make results like 50 times faster than a few half assed fencers who only compete every 3-4 times a year and show up at practice on a lunar schedule, even if they do have an amazing coach.

But the thing is, not many people (at least not on this board) want to focus their attention on this, because admittedly, its a LOT harder to get a dozen moderately talented, ball busting, demon spirited fencers in your club than it is to ponder on the merits of the french school vs the italian school and how it relates to the magic stuttering clown marching attack.

Don't pretend that fencing is rocket science.

[Mr Epee]

Nice rant, buddy...

However, I think you missed an important point. The most common fetish among fencing coaches is not "minor nuances of the sport" but the much more obvious addiction to leather. If left untreated for several years what started as a simple leather fetish can escalate into a desire for people to call them "master."

Any job that involves wearing a mask, dressing in leather, and being called Master is clearly going end up being a role call for the freak show. It was only a mater of time. You know this.

'Hey, little girl, let me show you how to hold that french grip."

This will not end well. :-)

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Any job that involves wearing a mask, dressing in leather, and being called Master is clearly going end up being a role call for the freak show. It was only a mater of time. You know this.

The worst part of it is the fact that it will almost invariably involve young children on the other end.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Nice rant, buddy...

However, I think you missed an important point. The most common fetish among fencing coaches is not "minor nuances of the sport" but the much more obvious addiction to leather. If left untreated for several years what started as a simple leather fetish can escalate into a desire for people to call them "master."

Any job that involves wearing a mask, dressing in leather, and being called Master is clearly going end up being a role call for the freak show. It was only a mater of time. You know this.

'Hey, little girl, let me show you how to hold that french grip."

This will not end well. :-)

That was funny.

Originally Posted by RITFencing

The worst part of it is the fact that it will almost invariably involve young children on the other end.

That was unneccasary.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

And I think this section of the forum is a little ridiculous.

Unlike the rest of the forum?

[Adler]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

II just happen to pick up a few things here and there while I'm on the job.

Just like a kleptomaniac Prostitute.

[Hauptman]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I'm not what you would call a "Coach", just somebody who teaches fencing to fund my drug habit. I just happen to pick up a few things here and there while I'm on the job.

And I think this section of the forum is a little ridiculous.

Fencing is not complicated. You hit the other guy with a stick.

If you want to get better, you bust your butt at practice, and you go to tournaments. You'll improve (and if you can't improve with practice and competition, then I'm sorry, but you suck and nothing in the world is going to make you a better fencer).

But I think many coaches on this board have some sort of fetish with the minor nuances of the sport.

Why worry about the proper lesson motivation-distance for a double-remise-counter-disengage-riposte when you don't have a boatload of motivated students busting their ass at practice and competing?

I swear to god, a few talented and motivated fencers practicing and competing together will make results like 50 times faster than a few half assed fencers who only compete every 3-4 times a year and show up at practice on a lunar schedule, even if they do have an amazing coach.

But the thing is, not many people (at least not on this board) want to focus their attention on this, because admittedly, its a LOT harder to get a dozen moderately talented, ball busting, demon spirited fencers in your club than it is to ponder on the merits of the french school vs the italian school and how it relates to the magic stuttering clown marching attack.

Don't pretend that fencing is rocket science.

Do you feel better now that you've let out all that pent up frustration and aggression? Or was there actually some point to your post?

[Fencergrl]

There isn't, so don't feed the troll's thread. Let this die.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Hauptman

Do you feel better now that you've let out all that pent up frustration and aggression? Or was there actually some point to your post?

Well I suppose it suggests that IMO, the most reasonable/efficient way to quickly increase the strength of a competitive program is to bring as many people through the program as possible, so that a large number of talented and motivated individuals are in the program.

The more dirt you pan per hour, the more gold you find per hour.

But in fencing, you're not looking for gold. You're looking for golden geese.

It seems to me, that would be the Autobahn to results, and its what should be discussed, rather than the merits and minutiae of technique.

[Adler]

Surely Geese on an Autobahn is a bad idea, it would just cause accidents.

[Hauptman]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Well I suppose it suggests that IMO, the most reasonable/efficient way to quickly increase the strength of a competitive program is to bring as many people through the program as possible, so that a large number of talented and motivated individuals are in the program.

The more dirt you pan per hour, the more gold you find per hour.

But in fencing, you're not looking for gold. You're looking for golden geese.

It seems to me, that would be the Autobahn to results, and its what should be discussed, rather than the merits and minutiae of technique.

Ok, that response was much better than the original insulting, dismissive, and arrogant crap you sent.

Now to your point: no kidding? Well, yes, that approach isn't "rocket science". And every coach here is well aware of it. There have been many threads (and books) that have explored that point. Or maybe you'd like to start an effective, rational, intelligent discussion with some well-thought out ideas to contribute?

Here's the next part: that approach will only get you so far. Yes, you will find the talent, but you then must effectively train that talent. That "minutiae" is key to getting past the many plateaus that people hit as they develop.

For example, Tiger Woods at the height of his career, the #1 player in the world, winning all the top tournaments, decided to completely retool his swing. Everyone thought he was insane; what could he possible improve? But he did improve. He consulted the best coaches and used his own intelligence and is now winning more than ever.

Talent and hard work are only two of the necessary ingredients. Knowledge is the third. If you and your friends want to re-invent the wheel out there on the strip, that's great... I had that exact same attitude when I was 18 years old. But then I realized how much more I didn't know.

[tdwg83]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Well I suppose it suggests that IMO, the most reasonable/efficient way to quickly increase the strength of a competitive program is to bring as many people through the program as possible, so that a large number of talented and motivated individuals are in the program.

The more dirt you pan per hour, the more gold you find per hour.

But in fencing, you're not looking for gold. You're looking for golden geese.

It seems to me, that would be the Autobahn to results, and its what should be discussed, rather than the merits and minutiae of technique.

For many coaches, its not about results but cultivating intrest. That requires much more patience with students than bring as many people through the program as possible. There is room for all types but remember it is the beginners classes that typically pays the bills.

[Meteoric Iron]

Awww, guys, couldn't it just as easily be a "Mistress" in the leather? "Is THAT how I told you how to hold that French grip? 20 push-ups!"

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally Posted by Adler

Surely Geese on an Autobahn is a bad idea, it would just cause accidents.

Don't call me Surely...

[griffindm]

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Don't call me Surely...

He actually meant surly

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Don't pretend that fencing is rocket science.

(laughing) But I feel the same way about rocket science, which is really governed only by a few simple equations.

The devil, however, is in the details.

AE

[Aestro]

I'm replying to a month-old thread!

For coaches, you really have to learn to work with the club as a whole. Not everyone that fences WANTS to be the next Smart, Mattern, or Zagunis. Some people fence recreationally, and while everyone would like to improve, not everyone wants to treat fencing like a second job. It really does depend on how the club wants to exist though - some clubs demand the utmost in dedication and attending as many tournaments as possible, while others basically serve as places to come together and have some fun a couple times a week. I respect a club's decision to do either, though I also believe ideally a club will allow for both the competitive and the casual fencer.

[Allen Evans]

Originally Posted by Aestro

For coaches, you really have to learn to work with the club as a whole. Not everyone that fences WANTS to be the next Smart, Mattern, or Zagunis. Some people fence recreationally, and while everyone would like to improve, not everyone wants to treat fencing like a second job. ...<snip>...I respect a club's decision to do either, though I also believe ideally a club will allow for both the competitive and the casual fencer.

Yet, in this environment, often both types of fencers resent the attention/resources/coaching time given to the other group. Even worse, many fencers don't realize what group they are in: many recreational fencers are convinced that they should be treated as a competitive fencer, even if they have done very little to merit that treatment.

It's the coach's job to help educate the fencers/parents on these matters, but often the other party is just not interested in being told things they don't want to hear.

Allen Evans

[VorpalCat]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

It's the coach's job to help educate the fencers/parents on these matters, but often the other party is just not interested in being told things they don't want to hear.

And that's why we get paid the big bucks. Oh, wait...

[mrbiggs]

Yeah, coaching methodologies are worthless, which is wh