Hypothetical Bag

[GypsyScot]

Okay, lets say one of us on the forums worked hypothetically for an unnamed manufacturer and hypothetically thought of making a hypthetical bag that will make airline travel easier, and since every airline has a 62 inch maximum and a bag needs to be about 45 inches long. Which leave us with 17 inches in dimensions left... what to do what to do...

[oiuyt]

what to do what to do...

Clearly the answer is to waste time that could be spent on designing such a (hypothetical) bag by posting non-specific threads on FNet... :)

Such a bag would also likely fit more easily into the hypothetical trunk of small(er) cars. Especially useful when one takes a hypothetical trip to Europe and expects to rent.

Will we be able to see such a bag if we go to a tournament in, let's say for sake of argument, somewhere like San Jose?

-B

[T]

I vote for in-line wheels like the adidas bag so the wheels don't fall off and they fit in trunks better (but forget the rest of the adidas bag because I found it awkward, too large, and it fell apart too quickly).


Tracy

www.usfencersforchange.com

[GypsyScot]

In line wheels where they are basically support by the frame "in" the bag take away valuable blade room, would 45*9*8 work if you had two in-line wheels under the bag.

Also I have the same problem I replaced my old Allstar bag with the AF 2008 Roll Bag and I drive a Chevy Cavalier, Oi is that fun to get out.

[LTranter]

I vote that the USFA gives every fencer coming to San Jose a voucher for 1 free fencing bag, or negotiates that for those 10 days, fencing bags fly free.

L

[AlphaFire X5]

So, since we have 17" left over to maximize our volume (and therefore the surface area) let us state this:

(i) x + y = 17

The width (x) plus the height (y) must equal 17.

(ii) A = xy

So what we are now trying to do is to maximize A, while still maintaining the first equation (i).

From Eqn. (i)

y = 17 - x

Substituting into (ii)

(iii) A = (17 - x)x = 17x - x^2

Now in Eqn. (iii) we have Area as a function of x only. To find the value of x that gives a maximum A, we take the derivative:

dA/dx = 17 - 2x

The maximum value of A will occur when it's derivative (or its slope) is equal to zero, therefore dA/dx = 0, therefore:

0 = 17 - 2x

which leads us to

2x = 17

x = 17/2 = 8.5
y = 17 - x = 17 - 8.5 = 8.5

This is, of course, the natural answer, as a square maximizes area and minimizes perimeter.

If we want to go with the most common design for hard cases out there today, the whole thing should be a cylinder, which would maximize the area to the maximum geometrically possible, the diameter of which should be 8.5".

Now you see the problem with designing cases to comply with ALL airline regulations? It would be quite difficult to get an entire kit, much less weapons and mask(s), into something only 45" long and 8.5" wide.

If it was done, however, I'd suggest making the case less of a clamshell design in terms of the 50/50 split most hard cases now have, but rather have a deep packing area and a shallow top, making efficient packing far easier.

And yes, I am awesome.

[MHS Fencer]

No. 8.5^2 > pi*(8.5/2)^2. You want a square ended bag. You're getting confused because the idea is to maximize the volume in rectangular space constraint (l+w+h), which is a slightly different animal.

Also, you'll find that the difference between 8.5^2 and 8*9 is a measly quarter inch square, so the first proposal is really quite logical. The real question becomes how much can you fit in this bag - a mask? How many bell guards wide is it? It's a fine idea, but a better idea is to push for the sports equipment exemption, which, sadly, seems to be in the hands of people with a lot less motivation than our more innovative vendors.

[Rick Shellhouse]

Okay, lets say one of us on the forums worked hypothetically for an unnamed manufacturer and hypothetically thought of making a hypthetical bag that will make airline travel easier, and since every airline has a 62 inch maximum and a bag needs to be about 45 inches long. Which leave us with 17 inches in dimensions left... what to do what to do...

Play catch up????

sorry Gypsy...couldnt resist...

R

[AlphaFire X5]

No. 8.5^2 > pi*(8.5/2)^2. You want a square ended bag. You're getting confused because the idea is to maximize the volume in rectangular space constraint (l+w+h), which is a slightly different animal.

Also, you'll find that the difference between 8.5^2 and 8*9 is a measly quarter inch square, so the first proposal is really quite logical. The real question becomes how much can you fit in this bag - a mask? How many bell guards wide is it? It's a fine idea, but a better idea is to push for the sports equipment exemption, which, sadly, seems to be in the hands of people with a lot less motivation than our more innovative vendors.

You are right as to the circle thing, I got distracted about halfway through that paragraph and had to come back to it, effectively losing my train of thought.

However, with a square ended bag you are going to need to round the corners in order to reduce stresses that will occur naturally at pointed edges. You know this, of course.

No matter what, I would still prefer a shallower top than what is currently on the market, allowing for easier use of the packing volume. Current ones are split 50/50, which makes using the top 50% of the case somewhat difficult to access.

[KD5MDK]

My previous post didn't go through so I'll try and recreate it.

I wouldn't recommend worrying about whether or not a mask can fit in too much. Your mask goes in your carryon along with your fencing whites, shoes, etc. Your checked fencing bag carries your blades and civilian clothes outbound, and swaps for your dirty whites homebound.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Many times a mask will not fit in your carry-on baggage. At least not if you have to keep to the measurements required by the airlines. (Which in most cases you have to, at least in Europe.)

[Phincer]

Many times a mask will not fit in your carry-on baggage. At least not if you have to keep to the measurements required by the airlines. (Which in most cases you have to, at least in Europe.)

Try this. The 25" size fits under the seat with a mask in it. I can't get a price on the smallest size, but the largest is a little dear. edit-don't think this is what I was thinking of at first.

edit: here's the one a friend has: LL Bean. It does fit under the seat with a mask and LL Bean has more color options. $79.

[T]

My previous post didn't go through so I'll try and recreate it.

I wouldn't recommend worrying about whether or not a mask can fit in too much. Your mask goes in your carryon along with your fencing whites, shoes, etc. Your checked fencing bag carries your blades and civilian clothes outbound, and swaps for your dirty whites homebound.

I wouldn't buy a fencing bag where my mask wouldn't fit in it. Most fencers haul their fencing gear around town or within driving distance much more than they haul it around on a plane. Masks need to fit in the bag in order for it to sell to most fencers... If a mask isn't going to fit, and you are going to carry your mask and whites in a separate bag, then you may not need a big bag with wheels...

[Sabresque]

Just buy one of the mask bags you can get with a lexan mask, and use it as your "personal item" along with your normal carry on.

[KD5MDK]

I wouldn't buy a fencing bag where my mask wouldn't fit in it. Most fencers haul their fencing gear around town or within driving distance much more than they haul it around on a plane. Masks need to fit in the bag in order for it to sell to most fencers... If a mask isn't going to fit, and you are going to carry your mask and whites in a separate bag, then you may not need a big bag with wheels...

This bag is designed for easier airline travel, so for occasional fliers maybe a bigger regular rollbag would be more suitable.

Given we need the 45" length to fit blades, (french grip epee max length 110cm or 43.3".) we're stuck with 17" of other dimensions, either 7x10 or 8x9 or something. I'm at work, what are the usual width and depth of a mask (I presume these are the shorter dimensions).
It may be that you can fit a mask down by the tips of the blades, but I don't think you can fit more than 2 epee bell guards in a 10x8 space. I'd want to travel with 4 blades, which means 2 guards at each end.

Maybe my mental image is all off, I don't have any gear in front of me to measure. But this bag seems to me to be about compromises, and I suspect fitting a mask may be one of them.

[Craig]

You can fit a mask in an 8" wide section, so I would say that the width needs to be at least 8". Now, travelling with 4 epees plus uniform makes it interesting.

Rich - looks like you'll be building a few boxes as test models. I'd start with 45 x 8 x 9 to see how the epees fit in with the mask. Shoes and uniform can be fit in between the blades.

Craig

[KD5MDK]

Some 1/4" plywood would provide a cheap way to make some mockups and get a feel for internal volume. Or, you could mockup with small PVC pipe.

Are we thinking hardshell or softshell?

[passata_sotto]

Just buy one of the mask bags you can get with a lexan mask, and use it as your "personal item" along with your normal carry on.

That is exactly what my youngest son does. He puts his uniform in a small carry on bag and the mask is his "personal item". He uses the fencing bag for weapons etc and his "civilian" clothes.

With four boys who fence I certainly wont be able to afford the extra charges. We have gotten packing down to the above so it is carry on and one checked but we sometimes take a duffle with air mattresses for extra club members.

I hope you come up with something that works soon.

[TBean]

I'd want to travel with 4 blades, which means 2 guards at each end.

Just four blades - lots of epee fencers travel with six blades. Coaches with athletes each weapon will have probably have six weapons as well for warm-up lessons.

Hypothetical bag - lots of space for blades.

[GypsyScot]

Hypothetical bag - lots of space for blades.

For an Airline-legit bag so people won't deal with $25-$100 Fines for being a fencer, it ain't happening, Maybe 4 weapons, it'll be hard, I'm working out the particulars.

You guys are all great help, please keep with the thoughts.