Killing Time?

[Lady Riposter]

I teach a class of 11-14 year old fencers. These fencers have been fencing for at least six months, some of them for a year or two. It takes some of the kids a long time to get their kit on after we've done the group warm-up, which leaves the faster half of the class standing around for a few minutes. I'm looking for some ideas for very quick little games or drills I can do with the kids while they are congregating. It's important that these be fairly self-explanatory so that I don't have to explain directions to each child individually.

Last week I threw curtain rings at them - no, really. I tossed rings gently towards the tip of each person's foil. Their job was to extend and try to catch the ring, or at least touch it. They were to do this with a smooth extension. It's not the greatest fencing exercise in the world but they really enjoyed it and it was a good way to kill a couple of minutes. This week I'll probably do one of the many glove games.

Does anyone else have any ideas? Thanks for your help!

[Mr Epee]

The time wasted getting dressed can be frustrating, but I think you are asking for an even bigger headache by trying to manage a secondary activity during that time. Every activity has transition time. Long dressing time usually has something to do with distractions, so why intentionally introduce additional distractions?

Work 'em hard in the start... then relax while they take 10 mins to dress. That's their rest time and yours. As long as they aren't being too crazy let 'em have a little time to group build.

[jBirch]

We actually teach an entire class devoted to efficient dressing. All the students are required to lay out their gear in the same order in the same area and to put it on in the same manner. Then, they just "assemble" their uniform by rote many times.

Sometimes, just for fun, after they've gotten good at it and I'm annoyed at how long it takes them to get dressed, I'll make them get undressed and then redressed again a couple of times, timing each repetition.

It's a drill I remember hating from my army days, but seems to work reasonably well.

Hope this helps.

James.

[Mr Epee]

Wow, James.

Really?

I guess every group is different, but how much time is really being saved?

Even on one of those weird days right before x-mas holiday, spring break, or end of school, I can't imagine thing taking more than 10 mins. Ok, maybe 15. I just don't see anything worthy of army drills (that have to be embarassing at some level).

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Have you considered, that if your students are taking copious amounts of time to get ready, that they don't actually like fencing?

Sometimes you get lazy, unmotivated students. Not everyone is right for fencing.

Its unfortuneate that to keep your program together financially, you have to include the fools.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Have you considered, that if your students are taking copious amounts of time to get ready, that they don't actually like fencing?

Sometimes you get lazy, unmotivated students. Not everyone is right for fencing.

Its unfortuneate that to keep your program together financially, you have to include the fools.

This might be the case... and then again, it might not.

I've dealt with some very high level fencers who really love fencing that also, from time to time, take a damn long while in getting dressed. Sometime they're not motivated that day, sometimes they're going through rough times at school and want some extra social time, sometimes there's a completely unrelated reason.

No one stays 100% focussed all the time, but I do feel that it is the coach's job to make sure that time is being used as efficiently as possible without inflicting severe damage on the fencers.

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Wow, James.

Really?

I guess every group is different, but how much time is really being saved?

Even on one of those weird days right before x-mas holiday, spring break, or end of school, I can't imagine thing taking more than 10 mins. Ok, maybe 15. I just don't see anything worthy of army drills (that have to be embarassing at some level).

Yeah. We teach it in the first few classes a student gets. In the first class or two, we get them to pick out a jacket and mask that fits, find a weapon of the appropriate hand and then to assemble their gear before class starts in the following left to right order: chest protector, body wire, jacket, glove, mask, weapon. One of the coaches then does a simple check to make sure that they've got all their gear, and then we start warm ups and stretching. When we get to having to actually put the gear on, we go through the "assembly" steps and the students practice getting dressed and undressed a couple of times.

It actually helps calm their nerves a lot at their first few competitions. Getting dressed can be terribly distracting if it doesn't happen smoothly. It can also be terribly confusing the first few times you try it (which goes on first, the jacket or the pants? The socks or the body wire? ), so we have a class where the competitive students (who have sous plastron, lame, socks, pants and some spares) figure out where in the L-R order each of their extra gear goes.

If they lay their gear out, at least they have a visual reminder that they've GOT all their gear. And it does tend to minimise the amount of transition time due to not having their gear on. AND it makes the club look a little neater as we don't have fencing gear splatted all over the place. It's a trick I picked up from Kendo, actually.

...but I only make them do the "dressing drills" if I'm feeling particularly cranky.

James.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

This might be the case... and then again, it might not.

I've dealt with some very high level fencers who really love fencing that also, from time to time, take a damn long while in getting dressed. Sometime they're not motivated that day, sometimes they're going through rough times at school and want some extra social time, sometimes there's a completely unrelated reason.

No one stays 100% focussed all the time, but I do feel that it is the coach's job to make sure that time is being used as efficiently as possible without inflicting severe damage on the fencers.

I think you're agreeing with me. Fencers take a while to get dressed when they're not focused or are otherwise unmotivated.

My experience is that people who dawdle around are crappy for the learning atmosphere.

I had the opprotunity to teach fencing last summer at a camp, among a plethora of other sports. I was allowed to remove slackers, goofballs and chronic **** ups from the sessions I taught each day, since I didn't have to keep them around to pay a friggin floor space fee.

They geared up fast, listened to my instructions, did the work, and in two weeks, they were much better than many fencers who have been fencing for 6 months. I attribute it to the fact that I didnt have to waste my time or theirs by telling retards not to -insert stupid, pointless, and possibly dangerous activity-.

So perhaps gear up time within a group of new fencers is a good indicator of who actually cares.

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

So perhaps gear up time within a group of new fencers is a good indicator of who actually cares.

I'm agreeing with a lot of what you say, particularly that it isn't good for the training environment (though for particularly long practices and camps, there do need to be some breaks, especially for cadet and junior fencers) but I'm getting the impression (and please, correct me if I'm wrong) that you are taking this as an indicator of overall level of motivation rather than just motivation at that moment.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

I'm agreeing with a lot of what you say, particularly that it isn't good for the training environment (though for particularly long practices and camps, there do need to be some breaks, especially for cadet and junior fencers) but I'm getting the impression (and please, correct me if I'm wrong) that you are taking this as an indicator of overall level of motivation rather than just motivation at that moment.

I don't really take it as anything, just something that I've noticed.

The people who want to train don't waste time. Not especially radical.

[Lady Riposter]

Just to clarify, I'm talking a matter of 3-5 minutes, not 10.

My kids aren't unmotivated, some just move faster than others. Some of them also try to get in a few minutes of chatting with friends while they're getting ready which slows them down, others have to go find something that fits from the club bags, which can be a challenge. Even though I tell them to arrive early to find gear, most of them arrive late. They're dependent on parents to drive them so I can't necessarily fault the students for their late arrival. I have no proof the students were the ones causing the delay.

I only have my class for 50 minutes a week, which includes all of their group footwork time, so I hate to waste time when they could be doing something fun, easy and productive while they're waiting for the rest of their class. Some weeks I'll just have them line up and practice their fleche against me while we're waiting and the slower ones who want to chat join the end of the line when they arrive.

[Mr Epee]

LR,

Wow, 3-5 mins? You go girl. That's pretty impressive.

Those 50 minutes can fly by though... so if you're still stressing about it, here's what I'd do.

1. Make sure that everyone is fencing epee... :-)

I know you mentioned foil, but my idea involves epee stuff. You'll have to either adapt the exercise, or convert your fencers. If your students are ridiculously good looking and remarkable intellegent, then you will need to convert them to epee in the long run anyways... so now is as good a time as any.

2. I assume that your students participate in standard target board exercises. During regular target exercises limit drills to standard actions. When students finish dressing early, you can reward them by letting them head back to the target board, but this time they can extend the exercises to include toe touches. (just add second target pad on the floor). This is quick and should requre little/no direction on your part. Essentially, you just need something that is more of the same... but with a twist. The message is clear. When you are quick in transition, then you get to develop a skill that others won't. You snooze you lose, kiddos. I guess maybe you could do the same thing in foil with a flick dummy, or some other "cool" technique.

The key is to provide motivation for quick transition while minimizing additional transition time and minimizing stress load on the instructor.

Make sense?