NCAA Fencing Scholarships

[JEC]

Over the past few days, I have been looking into this issue for obvious reasons. A very important consideration is REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS.

It was then surprising to me to read this timely article in the New York Times.
The graphics are particularly useful. Ice hockey seems to be hot in regards to scholarships.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sp...rships.html?hp

According to their investigation:

In Div I and II, there are:

777 HS boys participating in the sport
48 receive scholarships divided among
127 male fencers (partial scholarships are the rule)
$1.4 million is the cost
38% is the average of a full scholarship (as compared to 69% FB, 79% BB)
$10,814 is the yearly value per recipient

641 HS girls participating in the sport
81 receive scholarships divided among
176 female fencers (partial scholarships are the rule)
$2.1 million is the cost
46% is the average of a full scholarship (as compared to 80% gym, 78% BB)
$12,040 is the yearly value per recipient


http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20..._GRAPHIC2.html

Food for thought!

EDIT:
The bottom of the figure indicates that the data for NCAA and for HS is based on Freshman to Senior data - 4 year data (for all sports) from 2003-4.
Based on JOs, taking 25% of the divisions to attend, my estimate of the number of competitive fencers is much higher than indicated in the thread - closer to 5000 HS fencers.

[mrbiggs]

127 is a shockingly high number given the number of schools that have fencing programs that are good enough to justify a scholarship, are well-funded, and are not in the Ivy League.

[JEC]

Still relative to other sports, if you fence, your chance of landing a partial scholarship is about 16%. The highest by far of all the sports on the list.

For example, Football is 2.75% and Basketball is 1.4%.

[JEC]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

127 is a shockingly high number given the number of schools that have fencing programs that are good enough to justify a scholarship, are well-funded, and are not in the Ivy League.

Based on my edit of the above small letter caption of the figure, the data is based from NCAA directly for 4 years (Freshman to Senior).

[fencerwallet]

And sometimes, scholarships are handed out according to this WSJ article...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120485166974418241.html

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by mrbiggs

127 is a shockingly high number given the number of schools that have fencing programs that are good enough to justify a scholarship, are well-funded, and are not in the Ivy League.

I think that's 127 male students receiving scholarships over a 4 year period.

I'd really like to see the athletic vs. academic scholarship awards in fencing. That would be an interesting spreadsheet.

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by JEC

Still relative to other sports, if you fence, your chance of landing a partial scholarship is about 16%. The highest by far of all the sports on the list.

For example, Football is 2.75% and Basketball is 1.4%.

This conclusion is incredibly flawed. 777 boys participate in HS fencing, but well more than 777 HS boys participate in fencing.

As far as I can tell, this study only considers athletes on organized HS teams. Many more kids are not on a HS team but fence USFA. They are also competing for (and more likely to get, actually) those same college scholarships.

-m

[rustica]

Shall we factor in the foreign recruits? I've heard, and I have nothing to back this up, that an awful lot of foreign fencers get full rides. That really eats up the $$$.

[Phincer]

Originally Posted by rustica

Shall we factor in the foreign recruits? I've heard, and I have nothing to back this up, that an awful lot of foreign fencers get full rides. That really eats up the $$$.

True. Our financial advisor got a full ride to Notre Dame (he's British) after the ND coach saw him fencing in Europe. This was 20 years ago, but still goes on.

All you have to do is look at the team rosters on the web and note the hometown of the fencer. Not a great number are foreign recruits, but they do exist.

[Sabresque]

On many of the better teams a good percentage of the recipients of aid are foreign fencers. Check out Notre Dame, Wayne State, Penn State, and Ohio State, all which have at least a couple foreign fencers on their teams.

[JEC]

There is a follow-up story today at the NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/sp...hp&oref=slogin

Total number of scholarships for Men's team is 4.5, while in women's fencing is 5.0 for Div. I and 4.5 for Div. II.

A balanced team would have 3 half scholarships for each of the 3 weapons, however, one star recruit will change that ...

[JEC]

This is the third day for the NYT scholarship series:

Wednesday March 12:

I's Not an Adventure, It's a Job
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/sp...ifestyles.html

Divvying Scholarship Dollars Can Divide a Team
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/sports/12envy.html


Monday March 10:

Expectiations Lose to Reality of Sports Scholarships
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sp...olarships.html

N.A.I.A. Reports Aid Differently
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sports/10naia.html

Number of Scholarships by Sport
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20..._GRAPHIC2.html

Tuesday March 11:

Recruits Clamor for More From Coaches With Less
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/sports/11coaches.htm

New Rules Threaten Sport’s Tryout Process
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/sp...1baseball.html

Number of Scholarships by Sport
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...S_GRAPHIC.html

[JEC]

This is an interesting read for anybody responsible for College Athletics. The link is the strategic plan for College Athletics at Duke. It is a public document and I received it from a Duke Alumni Association.

http://news.duke.edu/reports/athleticsstrategyfinal.pdf

It is a struggle for College Varsity Fencing Teams and other Olympic sports. This is in a school that has considerable revenue from its BB teams. However, the pro-active view of them is a little uplifting.

[JEC]

Time to resurrect this old thread...

Reading the article by D. Richards in the last issue of American Fencing Magazine (Winter 08) got me started again (pp 28-31, 48 - they forgot to indicate continue in page 48 at bottom of page 31). Debate is heated regarding the relative effects of title IX and economics on the number of fencing teams, particularly men's fencing teams (Men's Div I/all - 18/33 vs Women's Div I/all - 23/42).

Fencing might be at risk in Stanford ...
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

I couldn't find a link to the current AF magazine.