qualifying at division v. sectionals

[firstflute]

if a cadet fencer qualifies at sectionals for juniors at summer natioanls, do they qualify for cadet too? I want to go to San Jose, but I won't get to go for only 1 event. I hear my division tournament is like "closed" to new fencers, so theres no way I'll qual for Div 2 & 3 and cadet unless other people just don't want to go, but I wondered if I could get around it by making it for junior at sectionals. I think I am good enough to maybe qualify at sectionals, based on who did last year and how I usually do against them. Do sectionals have regular referees like at NACs?

[oso97]

Breaking this down into manageable chuncks

Originally Posted by firstflute

if a cadet fencer qualifies at sectionals for juniors at summer natioanls, do they qualify for cadet too? I want to go to San Jose, but I won't get to go for only 1 event.

See the Operations Manual. Yes, fencers who qualify for Juniors automatically qualify for Cadets.

In contrast, qualifying for DivIA does NOT qualify you for DivII/DivIII (thanks to the "wisdom" of certain idiots on our BOD who blocked a measure to re-open this qualifying path back up). The only way to qualify for DivII/DivIII is at your division qualifying tournament in those events. Qualifying for Juniors and/or Cadets also does NOT qualify you for DivII/DivIII.

Originally Posted by firstflute

I hear my division tournament is like "closed" to new fencers, so theres no way I'll qual for Div 2 & 3 and cadet unless other people just don't want to go, but I wondered if I could get around it by making it for junior at sectionals. I think I am good enough to maybe qualify at sectionals, based on who did last year and how I usually do against them.

What do you mean your division tournament is "closed" to new fencers? All division qualifiers MUST be open to all members of the division who meet the necessary eligibility requirements (age, classification, immigration status, etc). If the officers of your division have told you that you cannot participate, and you are otherwise eligible, something is wrong. You need to tell us where you are, what your status is, and the specific individual who told you that you couldn't compete and why.

Originally Posted by firstflute

Do sectionals have regular referees like at NACs?

Depends on the Section. The FOC has been taking steps to increase the competency of referees at Sectional qualifiers as of late. All Sections are required to have a representative of the FOC present. Most Section Qualifiers are staffed with excellent referees, although YMMV.

[DJ Apostrophe]

The athlete's handbook is your friend... that's the best place to look for answers to questions such as this.

Here's what it has to say on qualifying for the cadet event:

UNDER-16 (Cadet) – Fencers must meet eligibility above AND
• Be on the Cadet (Under-16) point standings on May 1 OR
• Be on the Cadet (Under-16) point standings at the time of the Division’s qualifying competition
OR
• Place in the top 25% (see Chapter 2.7.2 for detailed chart) of the Division’s U-16 qualifying
competition OR
• Qualify for U19 event OR
• Be in the Top 8 of the Youth 14 point standings after the April NAC

So qualifying for the Junior event (U-19) at sectionals will indeed qualify you for the U-16 event at Summer Nationals.

Sectionals are run differently from section to section, but most (if not all) hire solid rated referees to handle the important qualifier events.

As for your divisional qualifying event being 'closed'... I hope that only means that registration is 'closed'... if you're a member of the division, a citizen or permanent resident, and a member of the USFA, they have to let you fence... in fact, even if registration is closed they should still let you register (with a late fee tacked on, of course).

-w

[teacup]

Rather than having to download the handbook and scroll through it, it would be nice if there was a section posting qualifying information on the USFA website.

One click information vs having to hunt through the website's downloads.

[firstflute]

If I go to sectionals, I'll do Div1A, but I'd need a really good day to make that. It is mostly As and Bs in my section that qualify.

That's good about junior qualifying for cadet tho. I think I can do that.

The division tourney is not actually closed, but I hear they change the rules all the time to be sure only certain people make it. Like for JOs this year, they mailed a thing saying the qualifier would be on a school day during finals week. This is the JO qualifier, for high school and college fencers, right? And they put it on a school day during finals? I didn't register, since I had to go to my exam that day. I could have gone to JOs, but I couldnt skip an exam to go to the qualifier. Then I hear later they changed it to a weekend, but they didn't mail anything about changing it, they just told the ones they wanted to be there and that's all that showed up. It has been this way for years, I hear. I heard the division qualifier for summer nationals was fair last year, with a real ref and all, but those people quit and now it is back to sameo sameo, so it is like it is closed, since they change the rules until only the ones they want qualify. It is supposedly OK with USFA, cuz they always say they don't break any real rules, but the affect is the same for newer fencers like me. I hear there are other divisions that are even worse than mine. It sucks, but no worries. I'll go to sectionals.

[oiuyt]

I bet the best way to make sure it gets fixed is to keep the offending division anonymous. That'll help make sure people can look into the problems.

:eyeroll:

-B

[KD5MDK]

I'm interested in hearing who the Division submitted as their referee rated 5 or better at their Qualifiers, since last year had a "real ref" and this year didn't.

[Derobement]

Originally Posted by firstflute

The division tourney is not actually closed, but I hear they change the rules all the time ...... It has been this way for years, I hear. I heard the division qualifier for summer nationals was fair last year, with a real ref and all, but those people quit .... I hear there are other divisions that are even worse than mine

You hear pretty well but are you listening to people who actually know anything or are they just talking out of their butt? Maybe all you've heard is true but you've heard alot of things I would expect to hear from younger teenagers making excuses for not qualifying. Rather than pinning all your hopes on Sectionals, why don't you listen less to the hearsay and ask more questions of the right people so you can actually know when and where your divisional qualifiers are held. If you register and then they change the time and place on you without notice or if you get there and the competition is not fair, then I'd like to hear about it. Until then, try listening less, doing more.

[firstflute]

Who are you suppose to ask? Hearsay is what information there is in this sport. I got the regsitration form in the mail. It came from the divvision. The qualifier was for a day I couldnt go, so I didn't register. After the comp, when I went to see who had qualified, I saw they actually had the tourney on the Sunday before the Monday they said in the registration form. WHen I ask why that was, I "hear" its always like that. But that's my fault for being a teenager making excuses? OK whatever. . .

[oiuyt]

Sounds like the original form had a typo. Much more likely to be an error than a nefarious plot.

That said, if there's a history of doing things incompetently, or worse, of actual mis-deeds, you're still going to be better off by mentioning what division you mean. There are a number of people here that would have no problem checking things out or monitoring it for the future.

-B

[Derobement]

Sorry, wasn't saying that YOU were making excuses. I was saying MAYBE the people you were listening to were.

Regardless, it's wrong for the Division to reschedule a qualifier without sending notices. To oiuyt's point above, if you named the division you might get more useful suggestions from here (like division websites or officer contacts for next time) and, if there really is "fixing" going on by the division officers, sometimes shining a light on that behavior helps to stop it.