Swords Made In China; Bad Idea?

[Queen_Maleah]

I need a sword to practice with, but I don't have a lot of money.
The sword I want is cheap, but it's made in china, and the website I want to get it from say it wears down more quickly than the more expensive swords. Is paying more for a sword worth it or is it ok for a beginner to buy a cheapie one that who only goes to practices twice a week?
Are swords made in China really a bad idea?
Plase keep in mind I don't have an abundant amount of money to spend.

[SJCFU#2]

How well a blade holds up is subject to a number of factors, including how they are used. However cheap Chinese blades are generally not known for durability.

[Frater_Frag]

It depends on which weapon you are refering to with the word "sword".

I have used sabre-blades from Jiang, and one of them snapped last saturday, it lasted more than 18 months so thats ok, besides, they are cheap... Only problem is that you must give them a quick session in the armoury, otherwise they will not fit snuggly against the hilt (and break at the tang).

On the other hand, the foil-blades from Jiang are crap, they snap after just a few weeks of fencing.

[Craig]

Questions for you as there is not enough information to give you a good answer:

• What weapon do you fence? Foil, Epee, or Sabre
• Is this for electric or non-electric fencing
• How many times/week do you fence and for how long?

Now for the general answer: There is a range of blades forged in China. (Absolute, for example, has multiple styles/ranges of blades manufactured with different steels/tempers.) As a general rule, I find that the European forged blades, including StM, tend to last longer.

A good bit depends on your level of fencing and how often you fence.

Craig

[Pescados666]

I was thinking about these too. You see them on Ebay alot, like 4 complete electrics for $90. I'd rather go with a known brand European blade then waste my money on something that will break in a week.

[Zilverzmurfen]

Maleah, it says in your profile you fence épée. As a first (ie. 'beginners') weapon I'll recommend trying a non-FIE StM blade. As others have a already pointed out, how long a blade will last you, depends on so many more factors than the origin of the blade.

As for StM -- it's a very decent and durable blade that's yet quite inexpensive. It's good value for your money.

(I'd also recommend the Dynamo blades, I know some US vendors sell them under the name Fleche or something like that.)

[Medinilla]

In my opinion, is the last type of blade i would buy, i think it is a waste. In your case, i would use the club's equipment, until you can save some money and get a better quality sword, from a good brand.

[GypsyScot]

I'd just like to say, my Absolute Sabre blade has outlasted one of my students STM blade three times over and each one of his breaks was... ridiculous.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

Originally Posted by GypsyScot

I'd just like to say, my Absolute Sabre blade has outlasted one of my students STM blade three times over and each one of his breaks was... ridiculous.

Hmmm...I'm kind of embarrassed to say that my Absolute FIE foil blade is one of the best-feeling blades I've ever had. I doubt it will last as long as some of my others, but...we'll see.

[finnfence]

The only thing I'd worry about is that I've heard that some Chinese blades are not made in the safe way where the steel breaks off square when the blade snaps, but rather can break the long way, with a sharp pointy needle of steel that, in a worst case scenario, can go through someone's glove or mask and cause a great deal of unpleasantness all round. I remember the old days when all blades did that, and it was always a scary moment when you realized that the blade you were fencing with was actually sharp. Happened most often in dry practice, where you didn't have a white light to cue you that the blade was broken. Anyhow, if it's true that some Chinese blades aren't made with safety steel (other people probably have more insight on that), I'd say it's worth it in terms of peace of mind to get a safe European blade.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by finnfence

The only thing I'd worry about is that I've heard that some Chinese blades are not made in the safe way where the steel breaks off square when the blade snaps, but rather can break the long way, with a sharp pointy needle of steel that, in a worst case scenario, can go through someone's glove or mask and cause a great deal of unpleasantness all round.

You mean like every other blade out there?

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by finnfence

The only thing I'd worry about is that I've heard that some Chinese blades are not made in the safe way where the steel breaks off square when the blade snaps, but rather can break the long way, with a sharp pointy needle of steel that, in a worst case scenario, can go through someone's glove or mask and cause a great deal of unpleasantness all round. I remember the old days when all blades did that, and it was always a scary moment when you realized that the blade you were fencing with was actually sharp. Happened most often in dry practice, where you didn't have a white light to cue you that the blade was broken. Anyhow, if it's true that some Chinese blades aren't made with safety steel (other people probably have more insight on that), I'd say it's worth it in terms of peace of mind to get a safe European blade.

That's not a matter of the steel type....it's more like imperfections during forging...the breakage patterns between carbon and maraging steel are identical....maragings just break less often.

You can't design a thin metal rod to break flat....they break all along the blade.

[Timberwolf_CY]

My non-electric Jian-Li foil purchased from The Fencing Post lasted me almost exactly one year. When it did snap, it was basically where the foible meets the middle, and it broke squarly. We had a Jian-Li electric at our club that also broke squarly...and so did one of my friend's Jian-Li dry foil...and he was brutal with his fencing...not so much friends anymore...

Anyway, I know nothing about the steel and stuff, but from my experience, Purple is right on the mark...it doesn't matter what they're made of, they all will break in a random way. HOWEVER...I do remember when the maraging first came out, it was advertized by some as something along the lines of 'more likely to break flat.' That's probably still out there on the Internetz somewhere...

Anyway, on topic, when I was fencing with my Jian-Li, it was a brick, but I fenced with it twice a week, sometimes three, for at least 2 hours straight, often 3, and it didn't break for around a year. Vast majority of my hits are pretty light, some are moderate, and the heavy ones that bent the blade were straightened out and I went on. This was 2004-2005 school year in college, and I'd be willing to bet their quality control is at least as "good" if not better than what it was when I got my foil..

So, what I'm trying to say is, if you can get the European blades, that would be best, but I don't think the Jian-Lis are bad as long as you make the agreement to yourself that it will only last a year at most (the other blades that broke were also about a year old), with the usage I've outlined for myself. They are cheap, but unless you are brutal with them, or get a random bad foil, it should last you a decent amount of time.

One piece of advice I will give you though: unless you like heavy/stiff blades, do not get the Jian-Li electric foils to compete with.

...
...
...

In retrospect of reading the previous posts, I realized that you apparently fence epee...so much of that may be useless. HOWEVER, the club I ran in Warrensburg, we procured 4 electric Jian-Li epees (2 we bought I think in October 2006, the other 2 we bought around October 2007), again from The Fencing Post. We are a foil club, but some people wanted to move into epee, so I bought some of the cheap Jian-Lis, because they were the cheapest, the foils weren't bad, and I didn't think we'd use them much. Well, we used the initial pair a lot for a short time when they first came in (most of the vets in the club used them for the span of about 4 months, and seeing as how all the vets did was free-fence, it was some pretty heavy use; again, practice lasted at least 2 hours, if not 3, rarely even more), than for a whole semester and summer they sat dormant, virtually no one used them. Than (what would that be?) Fall 2007 we started to use them a moderate amount (say, half the fencing on our only electric setup, which as you can imagine is used all practice, except of course for warm-ups), and that continued since I left UCM, which was December 2007. None of them ever broke, though to be fair, the 2 newer ones were never used. The ones we did use, which like all the fencing gear I kept in pristine condition, were used enough that they failed weights when I tested them just before I left mid-December and so I replaced the pressure springs.

So yeah, sorry for the book, but hopefully it helps you some in your decision.

[finnfence]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

That's not a matter of the steel type....it's more like imperfections during forging...the breakage patterns between carbon and maraging steel are identical....maragings just break less often.

You can't design a thin metal rod to break flat....they break all along the blade.

All I can say is that I remember in the 80s we used to routinely get thin, sharp spikes, or needles, of steel about 1-2 inches long on the end of a broken blade, and once I got one that was almost 4 inches long and so thin it could have gone right through a mask. Then I took a 12 year break from fencing, and when I came back, the manufacturing had changed. I've never seen any such needle-like spikes in modern European blades. I have heard about them occuring on Chinese ones, though. You could be right and it has to do with how the steel is rolled, the crystals lined up a certain way so as to encourage breaking in one plane versus another. Dunno. But whatever it is, modern European blades are much safer than they used to be, and I'm not sure that Chineses ones are up to it, though others with direct experience would know better.

[Medinilla]

Remise in my attack against chinese equipment...
Better to buy from a well known quality fencing brand, even if they are more expensive, worth it short, middle and long term.

[KD5MDK]

I've never seen a break like finnfence describes, Chinese or not.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

I've never seen a break like finnfence describes, Chinese or not.

I have....split right down the groove...

[DangerMouse]

The France Lames foil blades used to do that regularly. I think every one I owned broke that way.

[Rockstar44]

StM blades are pretty good and don't cost too much. Pretty much everyone will agree that they are a good choice. I use their foil blades a lot.

With the exception of Absolute products, I have NOT been happy with the Chinese blades.

I would not recommend anything less than StM. It usually turns out to be cheaper in the long run to buy a good expensive blade than a cheap questionable blade.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old

Hmmm...I'm kind of embarrassed to say that my Absolute FIE foil blade is one of the best-feeling blades I've ever had. I doubt it will last as long as some of my others, but...we'll see.

I have two Absolute FIEs that I've been using for some time now, and although I prefer to use my Vniti in most competition (I feel like it gives me better control) I, too, just have to say that the Absolute FIEs are very easy to fence with--they're lighter and easier on my arm in practice, which I need, and pretty flexible without being too soft.

That being said, in my (admittedly limited) experience with foil and epee blades, the StM still seems like the best choice for a non-FIE weapon--with the exception of a single StM foil blade that broke the first time I ever used it, they were in good shape for a long time for foil, and are holding out pretty well on my epees as well.