03-02-2008, 06:34 PM
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#1 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 77
| Thank godness for FIE
today i was at a tournament in jersey. i was in the second de and doing well but i got hit by point in line when the guy came at me. i just got my new FIE absolute saber mask took a hit. it ripped my lame and now i have a hole in it and if it wasn't FIE i would be in the ER. Thank you Absolute. 
Last edited by uhl-mann; 03-18-2008 at 03:49 PM..
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| | | And now for this message... |
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03-02-2008, 06:57 PM
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#2 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Southwest
Posts: 95
| ...Maybe it's just me, but I don't think an FIE mask should come close to ripping (even if it is just the lame) when it is brand new, much less with a saber point in line.
FIE means that the bib has to stand up to 1600N of force, which translates to about 360lbs of force. If yours ripped when brand new from a saber, you may want to contact Absolute about a possible defect.
The assistant coach at my club has an Absolute FIE mask that is starting to have the mesh separate after a few cuts. It still passes the punch test, but not for much longer. After seeing and hearing about these things with FIE masks, I don't trust my Absolute FIE mask for competitive use anymore. Practice maybe, but I won't be using it in tournaments.
Last edited by AlphaFire X5; 03-02-2008 at 07:00 PM..
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03-02-2008, 07:02 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Staying in DC; pining for Texas
Posts: 1,883
| OK, so maybe I'm a bit confused by my advanced age, but I'm not following why an FIE saber mask and a hole in your lame` is keeping you out of the ER. If you are suggesting that a FIE lame` is going to protect you, I think not (not to mention that to my limited knowledge, there is no such thing as an FIE lame`).
Please post something coherent when you settle down from you supposed near death experience. | |
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03-02-2008, 07:47 PM
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#4 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Southwest
Posts: 95
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Mergs  OK, so maybe I'm a bit confused by my advanced age, but I'm not following why an FIE saber mask and a hole in your lame` is keeping you out of the ER. If you are suggesting that a FIE lame` is going to protect you, I think not (not to mention that to my limited knowledge, there is no such thing as an FIE lame`).
Please post something coherent when you settle down from you supposed near death experience. | He's talking about the lame material on the mask bib. | |
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03-02-2008, 08:34 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: I have no home
Posts: 2,362
| Exactly. It's just lame material over bib material. Lame punctures. Doesn't have much to do with the bib.
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03-02-2008, 08:56 PM
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#6 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Southwest
Posts: 95
| Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdawg2121 Exactly. It's just lame material over bib material. Lame punctures. Doesn't have much to do with the bib. | I thought that with a saber mask the lame material was woven in with the bib, not just sewn over it. | |
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03-02-2008, 09:44 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Staying in DC; pining for Texas
Posts: 1,883
| OK, so the lame` material, which is normally a covering material (and not as robust as the material of the bib), was torn. That is not what the 'life saving' aspect of an FIE mask. I would posit that the 1600 N bib, regardless of FIE designation/certification, would have done the same thing.
Regardless of the technical discussion, it points out, once again, the importance of good equipment, built to standard. | |
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03-03-2008, 03:38 AM
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#8 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: South Africa, but I'm Spanish 100%
Posts: 84
| Amazing!, never new something like this could happen.... | |
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03-03-2008, 10:59 AM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Panorama City, ca USA
Posts: 7,972
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Medinilla Amazing!, never new something like this could happen.... | A sabre tip ripping through lame material? Not a big surprise....the Absolute lame is pretty thin stuff, and the stiffening of the sabre blades in 2000 had led to a number of similar incidents...including a couple where the blade penetrated both the fencer's glove AND their hand/arm.
In the case of the mask in this thread, the ballistic fabric did it's job...the lame is not there to protect, it's there to define the target area | 
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03-03-2008, 01:47 PM
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#10 | | no one of any importance
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MD
Posts: 1,750
| This discussion reminds me of a story I heard many, many years ago.
The story goes that in the early 80's one of the prototype electric saber system involved a lame that included a hood that went over the mask. Supposedly the lames were ripped to shreds within minutes.
None of this may be true, however it is worth noting that saber lames from the early 90's were often noticeably heavier and stiffer than foil lames from the same manufacturer. These days it seems like many manufacturers are using the exact same fabric for both their foil and saber lames so there may be a lesson out there waiting to be relearned. | |
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03-03-2008, 04:35 PM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Division
Posts: 2,414
| Could a photograph of the damage be posted for those who are curious?
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- The Three Musketeers
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03-03-2008, 10:32 PM
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#12 | | Fencing Expert
Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Posts: 10,695
| I'd guess that most sabre lamé tears come from a burr on the blade catching the fabric during a cut.
Certainly that's what put a small (1"?) tear in the center-chest of my current lamé (since repaired with conductive thread).
-B
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
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03-04-2008, 05:38 AM
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#13 | | Member
Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: South Africa, but I'm Spanish 100%
Posts: 84
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Fencer A sabre tip ripping through lame material? Not a big surprise....the Absolute lame is pretty thin stuff, and the stiffening of the sabre blades in 2000 had led to a number of similar incidents...including a couple where the blade penetrated both the fencer's glove AND their hand/arm.
In the case of the mask in this thread, the ballistic fabric did it's job...the lame is not there to protect, it's there to define the target area | Is true.
I guess to go through the lame material, the strength applied to the strike must be rather formidable. Is it more of a sabre thing, due to the the power of the thrust? or you see it in foil as well? because, i have never experienced something alike in foil.. | |
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03-04-2008, 07:49 AM
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#14 | | no one of any importance
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: MD
Posts: 1,750
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Medinilla Is true.
I guess to go through the lame material, the strength applied to the strike must be rather formidable. Is it more of a sabre thing, due to the the power of the thrust? or you see it in foil as well? because, i have never experienced something alike in foil.. | Actually some lame fabrics are pretty lightweight - some even feel more like paper than fabric.
Add to that the fact that the tip of a foil has a 0.5 mm chamfer around the edge so the sharpest edge is a limited to 45 degrees, while the edge of a saber tip tends to be square (90 degrees). | |
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03-04-2008, 01:35 PM
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#15 | | Equipment Vendor
Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Brunswick, NJ
Posts: 327
| Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaFire X5
The assistant coach at my club has an Absolute FIE mask that is starting to have the mesh separate after a few cuts.
| Tell your coach to call me, that's absolutely ridiculous, I want to check that out and see where the problem is coming from.
Also, the lame material on the FIE mask is just that lame material, it sits over 1600N ballistic material, a hole in the lame especially if there's a spur or a sharp edge on the button of a sabre blade it's going to rip.
You should see the two brand new Allstar Mask I went through in one weekend, I thought I was going to die.
Rich
Absolute Fencing
'keepin uhl-mann outta the trauma unit since last weekend' | |
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03-04-2008, 11:32 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: near Boston
Posts: 3,587
| There's another thread within the past 2 weeks in which I described how I repair rips in Lame material, jackets or masks.
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03-05-2008, 12:12 AM
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#17 | | Member
Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Southwest
Posts: 95
| Gary Spruill uses hot glue and a patch. Pretty effective, actually. | |
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