Vote Peter Westbrook into the US Olympic Hall of Fame

[Craig]

Peter Westbrook is one of the 2008 nominees for the US Olympic Hall of Fame. You can go to the US Olympic Hall of Fame page for Peter Westbrook and vote for him to be one of the inductees.

Let's get everyone viewing this thread to vote and leave a message on their blog.

Craig

[Mr Epee]

This may start a riot...

But should a 3rd place finish in a boycotted Olympics really qualify one to be a member of the US Olympic Hall of Fame? I guess you could make a case for longevity (as in number of games attended), but I don't think that is a particularly good reason for being in the Hall.

I see quite a few other names on that list that are more deserving.

[VorpalCat]

Looks like YouTube yoinked the video but there's also a video on the Hall of Fame page Craig links to. (Don't know if it's the same video or not.)

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

This may start a riot...

But should a 3rd place finish in a boycotted Olympics really qualify one to be a member of the US Olympic Hall of Fame? I guess you could make a case for longevity (as in number of games attended), but I don't think that is a particularly good reason for being in the Hall.

I see quite a few other names on that list that are more deserving.

I'd tend to agree.

-m

[Mr Epee]

You are allowed to select six.... here's how I voted.

1. Bruce Baumgartner
2. Amy Van Dyken
3. Shelia Young Ochowicz
4. Karch Kiraly
5. Greg Barton
6. Teresa Edwards

Anyone else care to share?

[Tomas N]

OK, here's the riot. If you take individual medals and divide by total U.S. medals won in that sport during the athlete's era, then Westbrook looks pretty good compared to everyone else. We have to contextualize the athlete's performance in terms of the sport and the era. If you win one bronze in Track and Field, then no, you're probably not going into the Hall of Fame. If you win one bronze in fencing, I think your importance as an Olympic athlete is much greater.

Tomas

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by Tomas N

OK, here's the riot. If you take individual medals and divide by total U.S. medals won in that sport during the athlete's era, then Westbrook looks pretty good compared to everyone else. We have to contextualize the athlete's performance in terms of the sport and the era. If you win one bronze in Track and Field, then no, you're probably not going into the Hall of Fame. If you win one bronze in fencing, I think your importance as an Olympic athlete is much greater.

Tomas

Your argument has a ton of value explaining why Westbrook was a shoe in for the Fencing HOF. For the overall olympic HOF? I think not.

your argument is that his candidacy should be boosted based on the United States' overall level (poor) in fencing during that era? really???

the flawed assumption in your argument is that somebody from fencing must make it in. Westbrook is, clearly, our best option to make it in (well, until the current crop of WS retires), but there's no reason that any fencer from that era need make it in to the USOC HOF.

-m

[Tomas N]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

Your argument has a ton of value explaining why Westbrook was a shoe in for the Fencing HOF. For the overall olympic HOF? I think not.

your argument is that his candidacy should be boosted based on the United States' overall level (poor) in fencing during that era? really???

the flawed assumption in your argument is that somebody from fencing must make it in. Westbrook is, clearly, our best option to make it in (well, until the current crop of WS retires), but there's no reason that any fencer from that era need make it in to the USOC HOF.

-m

Since I don't see any criteria listed on the US Olympic website, I can't see how my assumptions or arguments can be "flawed." They are just different than yours. If we think about the impact that someone has had on the sport, then Westbrook would be near the top. How many people did he inspire to think about fencing (and specifically Olympic fencing) compared to the other candidates? I don't know, but I suspect that his relative impact has been quite large. Merely counting the number of medals that someone has, I would argue, isn't the best way of gauging their qualifications to the HOF.

[piste off]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

You are allowed to select six.... here's how I voted.

1. Bruce Baumgartner

Anyone else care to share?

Without question. He has also fenced at least once in his life.

Rick

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by piste off

Without question. He has also fenced at least once in his life.

Rick

Deep in the bowels of the NYAC.

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by Tomas N

Since I don't see any criteria listed on the US Olympic website, I can't see how my assumptions or arguments can be "flawed." They are just different than yours. If we think about the impact that someone has had on the sport, then Westbrook would be near the top.

which is why he's already in the USFA HOF. if we think about his impact/stature in Olympic sports in general, he's nowhere near the top. Not even close.

How many people did he inspire to think about fencing (and specifically Olympic fencing) compared to the other candidates?

Well, I can't in good conscience argue that any of the non-fencing candidates inspired more people to think about fencing than he did. I can, however, argue that it's quite likely that by achieving medals in multiple sets of games (often of a shinier variety), many of them inspired more people into their sport than Westbrook inspired into fencing.

I don't know, but I suspect that his relative impact has been quite large. Merely counting the number of medals that someone has, I would argue, isn't the best way of gauging their qualifications to the HOF.

I'm not "merely counting the number of medals". I am looking at not only number of Olympiads but also relative success in them. I'm willing to believe that other factors play into it, but when he's not even in the same stratosphere as the other candidates in terms of the PRIMARY GOAL of athletic success, it's kind of hard to think there are THAT many other factors.

-m

[Tomas N]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

Well, I can't in good conscience argue that any of the non-fencing candidates inspired more people to think about fencing than he did.

I deserved that!

Again, since I don't see any specific voting criteria listed. The only description on the website for what they are looking for is this:

Originally Posted by Olympic website

We want you, the fans, to help us celebrate the contributions of those whose lives and actions exemplify the Olympic ideals and values that inspire all Americans.

I would argue that Westbrook's life and actions exemplify Olympic ideals (not that I really know what that means), and he's one inspiring dude (I've seen the documentary, after all). I'll continue to argue that relative importance in the sport is a factor, and I'd suggest that the nominating committee agrees with me. There are lots and lots of folks who have won more medals than Westbrook who didn't get nominated. Clearly they think that he's good enough to be in the top 18.

Tomas

[Tomas N]

Were I forced to choose only one athlete, and were I not a fencer, I'd go with Baumgartner though. He's a legend round these parts. Plus you can run into him at the grocery store, which doesn't happen much with legendary types.

Tomas

[piste off]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Deep in the bowels of the NYAC.

Great guess, as he did represent the AC and the fencers and wrestlers practice in the same room there. He used to have to fly people into Erie, PA for practice as I recall.

But what I was referring to is that my college fencing team captain (a Junior national champ in sabre) and he were best friends growing up in Haledon, NJ. He told me about it (they were just goofing around).

Rick

[dekko]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

This may start a riot...

But should a 3rd place finish in a boycotted Olympics really qualify one to be a member of the US Olympic Hall of Fame? I guess you could make a case for longevity (as in number of games attended), but I don't think that is a particularly good reason for being in the Hall.

I see quite a few other names on that list that are more deserving.

Normally I might agree if Pete was a 1 trick pony, ie 1 time olympian, but he made 6 times, not sure if the 1976 is in the 6 or if that would have been 7 olympic games. Second, as to the bronze medal, true there may have been some heavy hitters not there that may have had influence on the final results but as I recall, or I was told, that conversation and thought was quieted when he finished in the top of the world championship the next year showing it was not a fluke result, or so the idea went. If we was bronze then 23rd in the next WCs then you have a point, that didn't happen.

No riot here as you do have a good point but to make 6 OGs, that accomplishment alone would warrent consideration. Whether or not that would get someone in is a different issue.

Either way, Peter Westbrook was, and still is, a class act and was a world level fencer for over 25 years. Shouldn't be a huge surprise he is at least being considered for this honor. Personally I hope he gets it, but then again I don't get a vote.

[TooLoftheDeviL]

Originally Posted by dekko

Personally I hope he gets it, but then again I don't get a vote.

But you do get to vote... >.>

That was the point :P

[silver2e]

Originally Posted by Tomas N

I would argue that Westbrook's life and actions exemplify Olympic ideals (not that I really know what that means), and he's one inspiring dude
Tomas

From Wikipedia:

As stated in the Principles of Olympism of the Olympic Charter, "Olympism is a philosophy of life, exalting and combining in a balanced whole the qualities of body, will and mind. Blending sport with culture and education, Olympism seeks to create a way of life based on the joy found in effort, the educational value of good example and respect for universal fundamental ethical principles."

And then, of course, there's the Olympic motto:
"Citius, Altius, Fortius" = "Faster, Higher, Stronger".

[sheck]

PW showed how great he was by placing in the top 8 at the first electrified sabre WC in 1989. He was 37 years old. Made the 96 Olympics at 44. Anyone that fenced dry sabre knows how much bs went down. The guy never got a fair shot. He is a equal to anybody on that list IMHO.

[jfarmer]

Peter Westbrook goes and gets the first medal in fencing for the USA since forever. I would argue that his performance doing this is deserving of being recognized and furthermore, a case could be made that it laid the ground work leading to today's crop of men and women sabruers with serious chances of medaling...

[piste off]

Originally Posted by jfarmer

Peter Westbrook goes and gets the first medal in fencing for the USA since forever.

"forever" =

1960 (Rome) - Axelrod, Bronze in foil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Axelrod

Rick