Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Dreyman · 02-28-2008, 12:43 AM

I'm looking to buy a French grip foil, and I'm looking at this one. It appears to be a Leon Paul blade. Is this true? When you choose your point, it gives 4 different options. What are the differences between them? What's the difference between all the different foil guards? Is there another French grip foil anyone recommends?

Edit: it also gives the option of a hard cover. Is a hard cover a foil case?

Beloit Fencer of Old · 02-28-2008, 10:17 AM

Your best bet is to ask Craig. I will offer one opinion, though. I would spend the extra money on the FWF Nextgen point. I keep hearing about the LP points getting gummed up. If you're not going to take the point apart and clean it every few fencing days, then the LP point may not be the way to go. The regular German tips get crushed. They have not lasted very long before getting crushed, causing your tip to stick. I recently bought a few of the Nextgen points, and it turns out they are tanks. No problems with them whatsoever. The one caveat is that you have to make sure that you don't have too much tape on your tips, and you MAY run into some test weights which have openings which are too narrow for the Nextgen point. On the other hand, if it saves you rewiring, it may be worth the risk. You can always ask the ref to switch weights to one which has a big enough opening for your point (and I have NOT run into problems with this...I've only heard stories).

I have no idea what the hard cover is. Maybe a length of pvc?

Rockstar44 · 02-28-2008, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beloit Fencer of Old

Your best bet is to ask Craig. I will offer one opinion, though. I would spend the extra money on the FWF Nextgen point. I keep hearing about the LP points getting gummed up. If you're not going to take the point apart and clean it every few fencing days, then the LP point may not be the way to go. The regular German tips get crushed. They have not lasted very long before getting crushed, causing your tip to stick. I recently bought a few of the Nextgen points, and it turns out they are tanks. No problems with them whatsoever. The one caveat is that you have to make sure that you don't have too much tape on your tips, and you MAY run into some test weights which have openings which are too narrow for the Nextgen point. On the other hand, if it saves you rewiring, it may be worth the risk. You can always ask the ref to switch weights to one which has a big enough opening for your point (and I have NOT run into problems with this...I've only heard stories).

I have no idea what the hard cover is. Maybe a length of pvc?

What he said.

Pescados666 · 02-28-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreyman

I'm looking to buy a French grip foil, and I'm looking at this one. It appears to be a Leon Paul blade. Is this true? When you choose your point, it gives 4 different options. What are the differences between them? What's the difference between all the different foil guards? Is there another French grip foil anyone recommends?

Edit: it also gives the option of a hard cover. Is a hard cover a foil case?

I can't tell about the blade, ask Craig. Beloit Fencer of Old has already stated the difference between points. The difference in guards are the sizes and the weights. I wouldn't recommend a French grip, pistol is much more widely used. The hard cover is a pvc pipe with a nice elastic band to hold the weapon in, atleast it was when I ordered my foil from f.net, I don't know if it had the elastic thing as you are thinking about a French grip. I'd also suggest putting electric tape (or a similar tape, masking tape is too large for it) around the metal things on the elastic holding thing or it will scratch your new, shiny bell guard.

SJCFU#2 · 02-28-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pescados666

I'd also suggest putting electric tape (or a similar tape, masking tape is too large for it) around the metal things on the elastic holding thing or it will scratch your new, shiny bell guard.

And fencing won't scratch it?

Dreyman · 02-28-2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pescados666

I can't tell about the blade, ask Craig. Beloit Fencer of Old has already stated the difference between points. The difference in guards are the sizes and the weights. I wouldn't recommend a French grip, pistol is much more widely used. The hard cover is a pvc pipe with a nice elastic band to hold the weapon in, atleast it was when I ordered my foil from f.net, I don't know if it had the elastic thing as you are thinking about a French grip. I'd also suggest putting electric tape (or a similar tape, masking tape is too large for it) around the metal things on the elastic holding thing or it will scratch your new, shiny bell guard.

Thanks for the answers. I'm going to be staying with a French grip because that's what I'm trained to use. I've used a pistol grip before, and I don't care very much for it. Who exactly is Craig? Does anyone know where I can find a guide to taking care of a foil?

Beloit Fencer of Old · 02-28-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreyman

Who exactly is Craig?

Craig owns fnet and the forum in which you're typing. Say Hiiii!

Purple Fencer · 02-28-2008, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreyman

Thanks for the answers. I'm going to be staying with a French grip because that's what I'm trained to use. I've used a pistol grip before, and I don't care very much for it. Who exactly is Craig? Does anyone know where I can find a guide to taking care of a foil?

You'll find that French grip in foil is not very competitive...the modern foil game doesn't really lend itself to the use of a french....in epee it's a different matter.

as for an armory guide....you can buy a GREAT one from my website, written by our own Michael Mergens....the best armory manual I've ever seen. Covers a LOT mroe than you'll need right off the bat, but a lot will come in handy.

Dreyman · 02-28-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

You'll find that French grip in foil is not very competitive...the modern foil game doesn't really lend itself to the use of a french.

Do you mean that it's not good for competitions, or it's not widely used?

OROD · 02-28-2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreyman

Do you mean that it's not good for competitions, or it's not widely used?

It's not widely used, and there's a reason for that. Pistol grips in general are better than french grips in foil. You've been training with french, but if you plan to keep fencing for a long time and go to competitions, then you might as well buy a pistol grip now and get used to it. You'll be happy you did later. The transition wont be that bad, you should be used to it within a couple of weeks. In the end you'll be able to fence better with it.

.

Dreyman · 02-28-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OROD

It's not widely used, and there's a reason for that. Pistol grips in general are better than french grips in foil. You've been training with french, but if you plan to keep fencing for a long time and go to competitions, then you might as well buy a pistol grip now and get used to it. You'll be happy you did later. The transition wont be that bad, you should be used to it within a couple of weeks. In the end you'll be able to fence better with it.

.

A lot of people keep on telling me a pistol grip is better than a French. What is it about a pistol grip that makes it better than a French?

Purple Fencer · 02-28-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreyman

Do you mean that it's not good for competitions, or it's not widely used?

Kinda both....you will rarely see a french grip on a foil used by a fencer with experience...after a while they move to pistols.

A french CAN be used effectively....but really only on a beginner who doesn;t know what to look for or how to handle an unorthodox technique...an experienced fencer will have little trouble taking on the french foilist.

Dreyman · 02-28-2008, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Kinda both....you will rarely see a french grip on a foil used by a fencer with experience...after a while they move to pistols.

A french CAN be used effectively....but really only on a beginner who doesn;t know what to look for or how to handle an unorthodox technique...an experienced fencer will have little trouble taking on the french foilist.

I thought the French grip had an edge over the pistol grip because of the movements that it can do. What can a pistol grip do that a French can't?

Purple Fencer · 02-29-2008, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreyman

I thought the French grip had an edge over the pistol grip because of the movements that it can do. What can a pistol grip do that a French can't?

Greater control, better angulation for infighting, stronger actions with the wrist, a stronger grip overall.

OROD · 02-29-2008, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreyman

I thought the French grip had an edge over the pistol grip because of the movements that it can do. What can a pistol grip do that a French can't?

Pistol grips give more control and strength than French grips. In fact, you can pretty much hold a pistol grip with very little tension in your fingers and not worry about having the blade knocked out of your hands, since your fingers are so intertwined with it. Also, the grip position being more neutral means that you have a better range of motion in the vertical plane, mostly downwards, while only giving up a little range upwards (which is not necessary anyway). So generally, pistol grips allow you to do everything from strong beat-attacks and flicks to very precise point controled attacks, while retaining a secure grip and wider range of motion... all with little or no negatives over a French grip. All this adds up to a better grip overall, especially given todays game of distance and absense-of-blade attacks, and the occasional flick if you can pull it off.

In short, forget the French grip, get a pistol grip.

Hope that helps.

.

LTranter · 02-29-2008, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Kinda both....you will rarely see a french grip on a foil used by a fencer with experience...after a while they move to pistols.

A french CAN be used effectively....but really only on a beginner who doesn;t know what to look for or how to handle an unorthodox technique...an experienced fencer will have little trouble taking on the french foilist.

You might also want to check with your coach. In our club, beginners start out with French grips and have to 'earn' the right to go up to a pistol grip. We don't get them until Coach says we can.

If you are comfortable with French, good for you. My son has been fencing with French grips for 4 years now and is just now starting to think he wants to move up to a pistol grip... and this has been an ongoing though for several months now but nothing he is rushing to decide.

L