Small build

[liquidz]

Just wondering what are the pros and cons of having a small build.. Or if there's even any of those. A big size person easier to hit a small size person?

[lindajdunn]

When I fence a well endowed woman, I have the advantage of not needing to be as close to her to hit her chest as she needs to be to hit my chest.

It's a slight difference.

[MaddMatt05]

I'm a big person, and while I may have more target area, the extra reach of long arms balances out. This is especially true in foil where your arm is not valid target. I've fenced small fencers though, where it just seems like they have no target area. I think there are pros and cons to every size and you just have to learn to work with what you've got.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Tall people are longer.

Short people have a lower center of gravity.

[Mr Epee]

Tall people will generally have an advantage in knowing which strip to report to for pools and DE's.

Short people will just have to wait.

[FoilyDeath]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Tall people will generally have an advantage in knowing which strip to report to for pools and DE's.

Short people will just have to wait.

The only relevant response in this entire thread.
Sure, tall people have longer reach at first, but with practice it becomes insignificant. Same goes for any build.

[kanuck]

small people infight easier then big people.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by FoilyDeath

Sure, tall people have longer reach at first, but with practice it becomes insignificant. Same goes for any build.

I don't think that's true at all. If you're tall you have a much longer reach, and with practice the tall people become better at using that reach just as the shorter people become better at defending against it. That's not to say that there aren't any top-level short fencers, it's just that they have specific disadvantages they have to overcome when fencing taller people.

Short people have the advantage of less target in foil, which is fairly important with the new timings.

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by FoilyDeath

Sure, tall people have longer reach at first, but with practice it becomes insignificant. Same goes for any build.

if this were true, we'd expect to see that the heights and builds of top level fencers are distributed close to equal with the population as a whole.

they aren't. on the whole, elite fencers are taller than the general population. Why? Because there IS, in fact, a systematic advantage to being tall.

-m

[MyrddinsPrecint]

How do we know that it's being tall, and not that people who are tall ALSO have the being-good-at-fencing-gene??

:P

[FoilyDeath]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

if this were true, we'd expect to see that the heights and builds of top level fencers are distributed close to equal with the population as a whole.

they aren't. on the whole, elite fencers are taller than the general population. Why? Because there IS, in fact, a systematic advantage to being tall.

-m

Not entirely sure this is true...otherwise, a lot of top fencers would be really tall, which just isn't the case. A few names in the top 5 fie foilists which have their hight listed:
Baldini :175
Le Pechoux: 171
Cassara: 193
Sanzo:177

The italian average is 176.
NCAA Championships last year:
Horanyi 183
Berkowsky: I estimate about 175-180 by me
Getz: 188
Sugimoto: 163

I know this is hardly an accurate statistical survey, but the best tall fencers aren't the best because they're tall. It helps slightly, but its completely and utterly outclassed by how they fence.

I know this is hardly an accurate survey, and I suspect that your probably right: if you take the top 100 or so fencers in most countries, they're probably about 5 or so centimeters over the average, although thats just me making an incredibly vague estimate with no numbers or evidence. However, it also becomes more and more insignificant the better you get, which is backed up by the fact that a fair amount of short fencer are always relatively well represented in the top 8 or so of world championships and olympics.

Again, all of this is my estimates and experience, but the fact remains that short fencers can do just as well as tall fencers, and all these stereotypes are are incredibly small advantages which may gain you a hit here and there, but which you're better off not relying on. It may gain you a hit here and there, but how you fence will win you the bout.

Sorry about this rant, but I'm always annoyed by how people always assume that tall fencers are good because they're tall, and wouldn't be able to move that fast otherwise, or that short fencers are good because they're squirmy etc.

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by FoilyDeath

Not entirely sure this is true...otherwise, a lot of top fencers would be really tall, which just isn't the case. A few names in the top 5 fie foilists which have their hight listed:
Baldini :175
Le Pechoux: 171
Cassara: 193
Sanzo:177

The italian average is 176.
NCAA Championships last year:
Horanyi 183
Berkowsky: I estimate about 175-180 by me
Getz: 188
Sugimoto: 163

I know this is hardly an accurate statistical survey, but the best tall fencers aren't the best because they're tall. It helps slightly, but its completely and utterly outclassed by how they fence.

I know this is hardly an accurate survey, and I suspect that your probably right: if you take the top 100 or so fencers in most countries, they're probably about 5 or so centimeters over the average, although thats just me making an incredibly vague estimate with no numbers or evidence. However, it also becomes more and more insignificant the better you get, which is backed up by the fact that a fair amount of short fencer are always relatively well represented in the top 8 or so of world championships and olympics.

Again, all of this is my estimates and experience, but the fact remains that short fencers can do just as well as tall fencers, and all these stereotypes are are incredibly small advantages which may gain you a hit here and there, but which you're better off not relying on. It may gain you a hit here and there, but how you fence will win you the bout.

Sorry about this rant, but I'm always annoyed by how people always assume that tall fencers are good because they're tall, and wouldn't be able to move that fast otherwise, or that short fencers are good because they're squirmy etc.

check the epee and sabre lists. As mrbiggs correctly pointed out, in foil it's more balanced due to the less target area consideration. in sabre and epee (especially epee) height is a CLEAR advantage.

-m

[FoilyDeath]

Entirely possible. Sorry, I thought i had specified earlier I was thinking of foil. My bad.

[lemon__fresh]

Boisse is only 5'11 , although he is definitely one of the few

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by lemon__fresh

Boisse is only 5'11 , although he is definitely one of the few

average male height in France: 5' 8.1"

so, even the low end outlier is 3 inches above the average height.

-m

[freerider258]

[quote=FoilyDeath;667007]
Sanzo:177

QUOTE]

SANZO!!!

hes a cool dude

[commiemermaid]

My coach told me that he loves to teach short people in epee, but it's pretty different. He says they need to either stay just out of distance (where they have a slight disadvantage) or at infighting distance (where they have a big advantage), and try to keep out of normal distance.

I find short people easier to hit in general, but it's obviously something that can be overcome.

[MaddMatt05]

your wrist is the same distance from the tip of the weapon no matter how tall you are

[Grasshopper]

Originally Posted by MaddMatt05

your wrist is the same distance from the tip of the weapon no matter how tall you are

Not if you have huge hands!

[MaddMatt05]

Originally Posted by Grasshopper

Not if you have huge hands!

Excellent point!