Why Must I Sign?

[Dreyman]

I was at a fencing competition the other day and after each direct elimination bout, I had to sign a piece of paper. Why must I sign the piece of paper?

[forethought]

To make sure the score and the result of the encounter was recorded correctly, people do make mistakes sometimes.

[Peach]

To make you double-check that the referee has not recorded the scores backwards, or so that when you go and protest that you have been cheated out of your next DE, the Bout Committee can point at your signature under the wrong score and laugh at you* That way, you don't run the risk of having results invalidated after the fact.

*which has happened to me.

[OROD]

Originally Posted by Dreyman

I was at a fencing competition the other day and after each direct elimination bout, I had to sign a piece of paper. Why must I sign the piece of paper?

It's a little known fact that on each of those score sheets, in very small print in the lower right, there's a line where it clearly states that by signing you are selling your soul to Rene Roch.

That's why I always sign "Rusty Shackleford". Hahahhaa... take that Rene!

.

[Dreyman]

Do you only have to sign during DE, or do you usually have to sign during pool bouts too?

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Dreyman

Do you only have to sign during DE, or do you usually have to sign during pool bouts too?

you're supposed to sign your pool sheet, too.
because, as it was mentioned, you're signing off that you saw the score sheet and are veriying that your score is correct.

it basically reduces the situation down to two points of failure, instead of more -- either you mess up, or the BC messes up.

[KD5MDK]

Did you look at what that slip of paper said? Did you agree it was an accurate representation of the final score?

Originally Posted by Dreyman

Do you only have to sign during DE, or do you usually have to sign during pool bouts too?

You sign your pool sheet that the end of the pool, not after each bout. If your referee doesn't make you do this (unless you've disappeared), they're not doing things right.

[Dreyman]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

You sign your pool sheet that the end of the pool, not after each bout. If your referee doesn't make you do this (unless you've disappeared), they're not doing things right.

Yes, now that I think about it, they did make me sign at the end of the pool rounds.

[ifencesabre]

They always make you sign the score sheet after pools and after
each of your DEs. You sign this because sometimes directors
make mistakes and you have to look at it and make sure it is correct.
You have to sign it to show the director that you looked at it and
it is correct.

[edew]

I strongly recommend that one sign the pool sheet. Mistakes are more likely to happen in the pool sheets (referee doesn't know you from Jack, gets the scored backwards, etc).

For the DEs, if you lose, and you don't sign, it's as though you did. If you won, sign and MAKE SURE YOU ARE RECORDED AS THE WINNER.

One of my fencers won the Y10MS this past Summer Nationals. Everyone cheered and he signed off. Next day, the opponent was listed as the winner. I go to the BC and ask why they got it wrong. They bring back the actual sheet indicating the other fencer won. I explained to the BC that, well, regardless of what they see on the sheet, the fact is that my fencer is on a cruise ship somewhere near the Caymans with a gold medal around his neck. Might as well make the results jibe with whoever is wearing the medal. I have a copy of that scoresheet and show it to my new fencers and parents to tell them to SIGN AND READ THE SCORESHEET!!!!111!!

I think, after that incident, we had Mary Griffith or someone from the BC physically at the finals room watching and making sure the person who won is the person who's listed as won.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

You sign your pool sheet that the end of the pool, not after each bout. If your referee doesn't make you do this (unless you've disappeared), they're not doing things right.

Originally Posted by noodle

you're supposed to sign your pool sheet, too.
because, as it was mentioned, you're signing off that you saw the score sheet and are veriying that your score is correct.

it basically reduces the situation down to two points of failure, instead of more -- either you mess up, or the BC messes up.

Originally Posted by ifencesabre

They always make you sign the score sheet after pools and after
each of your DEs.

I think you'll find the requirement to sign the scoresheet is no longer in the rules.

[Jay Ray]

That's why I always sign "Rusty Shackleford". Hahahhaa... take that Rene!

I don't get this joke, but it was funny nevertheless.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by downunder

I think you'll find the requirement to sign the scoresheet is no longer in the rules.

I think you'll find this "improvement" in the FIE has not and probably never will make it down to the USFA.

[Greg_D]

Originally Posted by downunder

I think you'll find the requirement to sign the scoresheet is no longer in the rules.

It's no longer in the FIE rules. It does still exist in the US Fencing version.

GD

[wbowman]

Beyond just signing the score sheet, if you win a DE at a national competition, you'll also be asked to take it yourself to the bout committee, where they will ask "... and YOU'RE (fencer X)? ... and the score was, etc. etc?" as an additional safeguard against getting something wrong.

[Welted 24/7]

A ref I once had at one of Candlewood's tournaments put it best- "Be sure to check your scores before you sign. If they aren't correct and you sign off on them, you have MADE them correct, and no amount of complaining to the bout committee will change that."

[dekko]

Originally Posted by downunder

I think you'll find the requirement to sign the scoresheet is no longer in the rules.

I have a hunch this is one of those 'US' rules that the rest of the world laughs at because it is silly. Double checking is a good idea but so many people are so worried about aftershocks that they forget to do their job.

Too many stories about people who sign without looking anyway.

As a ref I really like the kid who brings their scoresheet that mom kept then tried to argue about scores. We find the other kid and they usually agree with the poolsheet, usually because it's right. But mom kept score and she is never wrong. I have a hunch if you're 'that good' it won't matter.

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by Welted 24/7

A ref I once had at one of Candlewood's tournaments put it best- "Be sure to check your scores before you sign. If they aren't correct and you sign off on them, you have MADE them correct, and no amount of complaining to the bout committee will change that."

I hate this attitude... I remember at Summer Nationals a few years ago when a veteran's epee pool signed off on incorrect scores and the bout committee refused to go back and change it despite the protests of EVERY FENCER IN THE POOL because "you signed it."

Wrong decision, IMO. If both parties agree the score is wrong, their signatures, though a technical justification, should not be used as a reason to prevent the correct score from being entered. Getting it right should be the primary goal.

Btw, the person who got screwed by that decision wasn't the fencers from that pool, it was a fencer from another pool who hit a very tough fencer in an earlier round than she should have because that tough fencer was credited with one fewer win than she should have been.

-m

[Pescados666]

Read before you sign.

[AdamH]

Check the poule sheets, then sign. Lost out on a bye once by one seeding place on indicators because a poule fight which went to time recorded a V instead of a V3 for the other chap and I didn't check the poule sheets again when they went up. Lesson learned!