2008-2009 Plains Texas - New Mexico Cup

[Chuck]

We are just a few months from finishing up the first year of the Plains Texas - New Mexico Cup competition. You can view the current guidelines and point standings on the Plains Texas Division website at www.plainstexasdivision.com.

I am quite sure that some changes will need to be made to the Cup for next year (2008-2009) so that it is easier to administer and brings greater benefits to the divisions. What kind of changes would you like to see to next year's cup? Why?

I'll go first. The point standings need to be posted on AskFRED so that they are done automatically. This will make it easier for everyone to track their points and the points will be updated immediately upon the results of the tournaments being posted.

[Chuck]

A number of fencers have requested that we go to a system more like the national points system where a specific number of events count for one's point total, rather than counting every single tournament. The purpose of the Cup is to identify the best fencer in the two divisions for the year in a specific weapon, not to identify the fencer who is best at clearing his/her schedule for six weekends every year.

I plan on proposing for next year's cup that we still have six tournaments but that only the top 4 results will count. That way, a fencer will still have to fence at least 1 event in the other division to maximize his/her point totals. We also need to be more consistent as to which events will count. Every tournament in this past year's cup had Mixed Open events so I will propose that only points earned in the Mixed Open events count. Men and Women will still be sorted out for separate awards.

One good thing about this plan is that Ask FRED already has this particular template in it's database and will make record keeping next year much easier.

Comments anyone?

[gorgie101]

To make things even we could take the top 4 results but two have to be from your none home division. That would gurantee that the top fencer would have to have fenced at two events from each division. Basically it would allow fencers to miss one tournament from each division.

Thoughts?

[physicspackage]

Whatever is decided, it must be within the capabilities of the points system of askfred.

[Chuck]

To make things even we could take the top 4 results but two have to be from your none home division. That would gurantee that the top fencer would have to have fenced at two events from each division. Basically it would allow fencers to miss one tournament from each division.

Thoughts?

Well, I like the idea but there is no template in the AskFRED points system to allow for this situation and it would probably be difficult to set up. This past year we required that a fencer had to fence in at least ONE tournament in each division just to be eligible to win the Cup. Providing that 4 events can count toward one's total, that means that you still MUST fence in at least one event in the other division in order to maximize your points. Any fencer who only fences in his own division can only count 3 tournaments and would it would be highly unlikely that he/she could win with just 3 results.

Another problem we have is that only fencers from Plains Texas and New Mexico divisions are eligible to win. Ask FRED will allow the points system to limit fencers to a single club, division, section or USFA, but it will not just list fencers from two divisions. So we will have to include in the points all fencers but only those from the two divisions will be eligible to win. (Assuming we stay with that limitation next year.)

[arc]

Another problem we have is that only fencers from Plains Texas and New Mexico divisions are eligible to win. Ask FRED will allow the points system to limit fencers to a single club, division, section or USFA, but it will not just list fencers from two divisions. So we will have to include in the points all fencers but only those from the two divisions will be eligible to win. (Assuming we stay with that limitation next year.)

Well, you could theoretically make it just a smidge easier by restricting it to RMS ...

As a side note, I do prefer the requirement that one must fence in at least one tourney in the other division to be eligible. It's in keeping with the spirit of a joint cup, and is the underlying reason for the cup to begin with -- to encourage fencers to cross boundaries & fence in the other division ...

[oiuyt]

Or asking Peet for some assistance...

-B

[gorgie101]

Or asking Peet for some assistance...

-B

True. Peet is usually very willing to work with people. I just would not like to see someone win the cup when they only fenced one tournament in an away division. I think it would be better if they had to do well in two away tournaments. That is just me though. I understand the difficulty in getting it set up on Fred.

j.

[Chuck]

Well, you could theoretically make it just a smidge easier by restricting it to RMS ...

As a side note, I do prefer the requirement that one must fence in at least one tourney in the other division to be eligible. It's in keeping with the spirit of a joint cup, and is the underlying reason for the cup to begin with -- to encourage fencers to cross boundaries & fence in the other division ...

We could simply open up the cup to all RMS fencers.

We could still do this using the point systems on FRED now. Top 4 scores count but only those who have competed in at least one tournament in each division is eligible to win. The only hitch here is if they finish lower than 32nd, they won't show up on the points list as having competed. But I'm sure that is fixable.

[Chuck]

Or asking Peet for some assistance...

-B

There you go being practical. That's no fun.

[oso97]

From my experience working with Peet on the SSCC standings - if you can dream it up, he can make it happen, point calculation wise.

[Chuck]

I've sent Peet information on what I anticipate being the rules for this next year's Plains Texas - New Mexico Cup competition and Peet says he can probably have it ready sometime after July. We will be using the AskFRED point standings lists this next year.

[Chuck]

These are the rules I have given Peet to use in working up a points list for this next year.

1. Only Plains Texas and New Mexico Divisions' fencers can earn points. (Peet said he can do this but the list won't be usable by other divisions.)

2. The Veterans Points list will be used to assign points. That is, 400 points for 1st place, with points assigned down to 64th place. (We need points assigned down to 64th, rather than 32nd, in order to accomodate all male and female fencers. Most events will have 64 or less fencers competing so it is likely that all fencers competing will earn points.)

3. All points will come from the Senior Mixed Open Foil, Epee and Saber events.

4. Male and female fencers will earn the points assigned to their place within the 64 places but there will be a separate points list for male and female fencers.

6. There will be six tournaments in the Cup competition (3 named by Plains Texas and 3 named by New Mexico).

7. The top 4 results will be counted toward a fencer's total points. That way, a fencer must fence in at least one tournament from outside his home division in order to maximize his points total.

[Chuck]

There may be one change in my last post above. Andy Carey from New Mexico has requested that a fencer's totals include only the top 2 scores from each division's tournaments. That way, a fencer has to fence in at least 2 tournaments from each division in order to maximize his/her points rather than just counting the top 4 scores which would allow a fencer to fence in his 3 home division tournaments and 1 from the other division.

I like the idea. A week or two ago, I sent an email to Peet to see if he can fix up a point system on AskFRED that will track this kind of system. I haven't heard back yet. If this works out, we will probably go with that set up.