Is US Fencing going bankrupt?

[LordShout]

But National events do not have to be every weapon and sex lasting over four days.

Ohhh I disagree, I disagree most heartily. We can cut the numbers of weapons down but as for the other... You go too far, much too far.

[bunbury]

Ohhh I disagree, I disagree most heartily. We can cut the numbers of weapons down but as for the other... You go too far, much too far.

We all know that men's foil is the only event that matters...

[Craig]

Charge vendors a fee for being there.

The USFA already does, and increased the fees this year by more than 10% over last year.

Craig

[notalent]

This would make holding SN a balls ton more expensive, having to fly people in on 3 separate weekends, not to mention having the Div I/Jr/Cadet (U19 = junior) being after the Olympics and pretty near world champs...

It comes down to stupid spending on the USFA's part. I run the math every which way and I don't understand how they can be losing money and there are plenty of ways for them to be making money in other places. Hell, stop mailing crap out; leave the option for electronic-only on the entry form... that alone would save hundreds of dollars. Charge vendors a fee for being there. At the last NAC in Atlanta, there were 1723 fencers, including duplications. Assuming that a third of them fenced 2 events, that's $136,764. Have a ref/cost ratio; if it costs $500 to fly him or her out, tell them no thanks, maybe next time.

Hiring single weapon refs is not the best use of a plane ticket either. Having a defined budget for the hiring HR to work with would certainly help contain costs.

[KD5MDK]

If they can work on their weapon all day every day, it's not a particular loss, either. The fact I spend all day working in one weapon doesn't decrease the output of bouts completed (assuming the same number of bouts are needed overall) than if I had split my efforts over multiple weapons.

[dekko]

When I was considering opening a club sometime ago I heard from lots of folks around the country and they all said basically the same thing, you can either make money or train olympians. I wonder how much of the current financial situation stems from the decision made sometime ago to put a greater emphasis on elite fencing and less on non-elite fencers/fencing.

[oiuyt]

they all said basically the same thing, you can either make money or train olympians.

I think there are counter-examples available of coaches/clubs available that are both training Olympians (and other national team members) AND making money.

-B

[RITFencing]

I think there are counter-examples available of coaches/clubs available that are both training Olympians (and other national team members) AND making money.

-B

Yes, definitely.

[notalent]

If they can work on their weapon all day every day, it's not a particular loss, either. The fact I spend all day working in one weapon doesn't decrease the output of bouts completed (assuming the same number of bouts are needed overall) than if I had split my efforts over multiple weapons.

Ah but that isn't allways the case, and on the days when there isn't a lot of weapon A going on other refs work harder to cover those bouts.

[fleuretrogue]

Well,

Now that the FOC has been brought up, I have to jump in. I have seen first hand examples of referees being asked to go to international events only a week or less in advance. This results in an exceptionally high airfare. The most extreme being a referee being sent to Salzbourg for a SR WF. This ref was asked on the Wednesday of that week and left on Friday, arrived Saturday am to referee starting at 1pm Salzbourg time. Of course, the ref was exhausted AND the ticket was very expensive.

The airfare was close to 4k. It would have been cheaper to pay the fine I think (1500 euros at 1.51 dollars per euro = 2303 euros) + no hotel or per diem to pay.

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The European Cadet tournaments (like World Cups) require the attending countries to bring referees, the cost of which is split among the attendees (in the British case I believe).
The USFA pays for the referees to our international tournaments out of the FOC budget, which was something like 85k for that line item this year.

[formerfencer]

Well,

Now that the FOC has been brought up, I have to jump in. I have seen first hand examples of referees being asked to go to international events only a week or less in advance. This results in an exceptionally high airfare. The most extreme being a referee being sent to Salzbourg for a SR WF. This ref was asked on the Wednesday of that week and left on Friday, arrived Saturday am to referee starting at 1pm Salzbourg time. Of course, the ref was exhausted AND the ticket was very expensive.
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I was ticketed on a Tuesday for a Sunday event because the original ref had an emergency come up and only was able to notify the assigner on Monday. I've also been on the giving end --- I had to cancel due to work. I was able to give a few weeks notice, but I had been assigned months before. Up until I made that phone call, the assigner had no reason to find someone else to go and others that might have gone had taken other assignments.
Things happen.

As a particular to the Salzburg Sr WF, I believe that the ticket was VIK, so not paid for but US fencing used earned credits from airlines to get him there.
Therefore the real cost of the trip was hotel, honorarium and per diem.

As for the ref being tired, we're all tired. And even with months notice, most of us book to get in as close to the event as we can. I don't understand how that is any different than SOP for the refs or athletes or impacts the financial status of the USFA.