Maintaining and improving plasticity

[ivlobane]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

This word, plasticity, I do not think it means what you think it means...

Inconceivable!

Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find a word that doesn't already have a specific meaning in a related field. Pretty please with sugar on top?

You don't have to use it, but here is one possiblity

Teachable: Willing and able to learn.

Doesn't that describe what RIT said he was talking about in the first place?

This is such a funny thread. A little benzine on the fire for yall: In Russian, the word "plasticity" (yes, yes, with translation...) means a physical attribute only. It is the degree to which one is smooth in movement and generally flexible. Kolobkov has high plasticity, Motyka does not. Eric Hansen: low plasticity, Gegan Cooper: high.
A better equivalent in English would propably be "elasticity"... "That damn Kolobkov is very elastic..." for example...

[oso97]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Oso,

I know you are talking to me, but I am not sure what you are saying.

This is how I read your post:

Here are your basic statements
1. Coaches should be able to communicate with students
2. Coaches should enjoy the respect of their students
3. One good way to coach is to lead by example


I have taken the liberty of rephrasing of your conclusion:
A student who has a naturally high internal level of motivation, when placed in the right environment has a high probablility of success.

What were you trying to say?

Sorry for the latent response, I have been busy as of late and not able to respond as I would like.

Sure, I'll take those restatements (*chuckle*). However, I would posit also that they're in a sense, no brainers, particularly the last one. Better question to answer: What to do about the student with a moderate internal level of motivation? The one's who aren't willing to sacrifice every last piece of free time and spare dollar, but still posses moderate levels of skill, motivation and those two ever elusive and hard to quantify qualities: being coachable and having a competitive mental framework.

The trick is perhaps, keeping these kinds of students coachable and not shutting down their ability to keep learning and growing. We all talk about fencing being a "lifetime" sport. Well, one of the reasons it is, is the need/ability to add new wrinkles to one's game as one progresses. I can think of a number of individuals I know who have been fencing for 15+ years. No, not national champions, or even regular NAC competitors, but the ones who come out to regional events, and take perverse delight in frustrating the heck out of the young up and comers. And I've watched their games change as well.

Then there's someone like John Moreau, who won Div I Men's Epee National Championships at the age when his peers are competing in Vet events. He's definitely got a different game then when he represented the USA internationally.

So, how do you foster that kind of long term competitiveness and need to change the game? And, how to you describe it, without resorting to long winded analogies? Okay, not pasticity . Got another choice? Heck, I'll settle for a phrase...

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by oso97

Sure, I'll take those restatements (*chuckle*). However, I would posit also that they're in a sense, no brainers, particularly the last one.

my point exactly... I'll see your "no brainers" and raise you an "irrelevant to the current topic" That's why I don't understand what you're trying to say.

:->

Better question to answer: What to do about the student with a moderate internal level of motivation? The one's who aren't willing to sacrifice every last piece of free time and spare dollar, but still posses moderate levels of skill, motivation and those two ever elusive and hard to quantify qualities: being coachable and having a competitive mental framework.

Those individuals who are willing to sacrifice every last piece of free time and every spare dollars are often deviants. If you are interested in that subject I encourage you to check out a few articles by Coakley on the subject of over-conformity.

The trick is perhaps, keeping these kinds of students coachable and not shutting down their ability to keep learning and growing. We all talk about fencing being a "lifetime" sport. Well, one of the reasons it is, is the need/ability to add new wrinkles to one's game as one progresses. I can think of a number of individuals I know who have been fencing for 15+ years. No, not national champions, or even regular NAC competitors, but the ones who come out to regional events, and take perverse delight in frustrating the heck out of the young up and comers. And I've watched their games change as well.

Then there's someone like John Moreau, who won Div I Men's Epee National Championships at the age when his peers are competing in Vet events. He's definitely got a different game then when he represented the USA internationally.

Yes, people tend to fence differently when they are 20 then when they are 50. Like your previous post, the point you are making is obvious and I don't get what its place is in this discussion.

So, how do you foster that kind of long term competitiveness and need to change the game? And, how to you describe it, without resorting to long winded analogies? Okay, not pasticity . Got another choice? Heck, I'll settle for a phrase...

Here's a few ideas...

You keep the lights on and the equipment in working condition
You don't pretend there are any secrets in fencing
You keep the environment friendly - greeting and leaving
You allow students to participate in the development of their own program
You don't allow the overly driven students to control group training.
You allow each fencer to develop their own relationship to the sport
You allow your students to impress you with their discoveries

You avoid an authoritarian approach to coaching

Play Play Play

It's fun.

[p1nkp4nther]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Here's a few ideas...

You keep the lights on and the equipment in working condition
You don't pretend there are any secrets in fencing
You keep the environment friendly - greeting and leaving
You allow students to participate in the development of their own program
You don't allow the overly driven students to control group training.
You allow each fencer to develop their own relationship to the sport
You allow your students to impress you with their discoveries

You avoid an authoritarian approach to coaching

Play Play Play

It's fun.

I would have to say that I agree, especially about the authoritarian approach. Every student is different and they need to find their own way of learning. Therefore, a coach can only provide an environment where learning can take place and will have to treat every student as an individual.

Also, this may be debatable, but I believe fun = learning more efficiently than fear = learning.

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by p1nkp4nther

I would have to say that I agree, especially about the authoritarian approach. Every student is different and they need to find their own way of learning. Therefore, a coach can only provide an environment where learning can take place and will have to treat every student as an individual.

Also, this may be debatable, but I believe fun = learning more efficiently than fear = learning.

You've got a gem buried amongst a bunch of noise.

There are some students who simply require a swift kick in the arse. There are some who don't/can't think for themselves and teaching them requires an authoriatarian approach.

Figuring out how to treat each student in a class of 100 as an individual is the real challenge here. How can you have a driven focused authoritarian environment while simultaneously fostering an innovative, whimsical, playful one?

James.

[p1nkp4nther]

Originally Posted by jBirch

There are some students who simply require a swift kick in the arse. There are some who don't/can't think for themselves and teaching them requires an authoriatarian approach.

Figuring out how to treat each student in a class of 100 as an individual is the real challenge here. How can you have a driven focused authoritarian environment while simultaneously fostering an innovative, whimsical, playful one?

James, I agree that some students may need that approach, but then that would be their "individual treatment" which would also be situation specific.

What I am against is an "across the board" authoritarian approach. I know such a coach and although he has had some good students, most of them left him and showed remarkable improvement after leaving.

Regarding the challenge of a class of a 100, (un-)luckily we (South Africans) don't have that problem where I am. At most we may have 30 people and that would happen twice a year during which we would focus on group footwork or some other group activity. The short answer is that we never provide "a driven focused authoritarian environment", but then that may be why we don't have good fencers...

Other times we are (un-)lucky enough to have about 5 - 10 doing sparring and 2 having individual lessons from 2 coaches. We have such a sad fencing culture ...