New Equipment Questions

[RTW]

I'm somewhat new to the online ordering system- up till now, I've been able to buy all my gear direct- at the vendor, more than just through their site. However, the aforementioned vendor is too far away to warrant making a plethora of trips to on a regular basis, thus, I have begun to order things through online stores. It was not until now that I realized just how little I know, and how much help I need.

I am a foilist.
At this time, I need one weapon, and several body cords.

Body Cord:

I will order a two-prong, no question. I've heard that bayonet is better, but my team only has two people that use bayonet. That being said, I need to know if all two-prong body cords are the same. More so than anything else, I need to know that they will all fit- that the prong size will be the same.
Also, what is an "Italian" body cord? My friend uses one, but I am unfamiliar with this.
Finally, how much does the brand matter? I'm not in a position to pay $30 for each body cord, just so they say Uhlmann, and work the same as a cord for half the price.

One big problem I've been having with my body cords is that the clip breaks/ disappears/ unscrews/ etc. Is there any body cord that has a better clip than others? Up to this point, I've been using the Absolute Standard 2-prong body cord.

Foil:

Yes, I need a foil. But when I went to order it, I had no idea what half the terms meant. Allow me to start by saying that I need an FIE electric weapon. Grips, I kind of understand. Just, does the maker matter?
Guards have been a problem. I didn't know there were so many options. Are stainless (I assume this means stainless steel) bellguards worth the extra money? Are they better, and if yes, how so? And what does "light and strong" mean? The guard I have now has never had a problem, so I don't see needing a more expensive one.
What's a nut? And what is the difference between an outside and inside nut? I googled this multiple times, but only found ways to put up a chain link fence.
What's a V2A point? How does it compare to German?
Does the socket make a difference- which brand it is, etc?

Finally, the blade itself. I've come down to two choices. A Prieur (Prieur-FL) or a BF (Blue). The description of the Prieur is that it is light, which is the type of blade I like. But I had never heard of it before, and I've never used one. The BF I've used, and I like.

Despite some of what I've said here, price is not an object, at least not with the weapon. Body cords should probably be a little cheaper though.

I really hope I haven't asked silly questions, or too many of them. And I truly appreciate any help. Thank you.

[twisterfencing]

RTW,

Here is a quick link to answer some of your questions:
What's your favorite,,,,,?

Gary Spruill

[RTW]

Originally Posted by twisterfencing

RTW,

Here is a quick link to answer some of your questions:
What's your favorite,,,,,?

Gary Spruill

Thanks

[HDG]

Originally Posted by RTW

I am a foilist.
At this time, I need one weapon, and several body cords.

If you're competing, you need two weapons.

Body Cord:

That being said, I need to know if all two-prong body cords are the same.

No.

More so than anything else, I need to know that they will all fit- that the prong size will be the same.

French & German are not really compatible systems (at least in terms of retaining devices)


Also, what is an "Italian" body cord? My friend uses one, but I am unfamiliar with this.

It could indicate one of the various Italian bayonet systems, or it could be one of the two prong cords made by Italian manufacturers.


Finally, how much does the brand matter? I'm not in a position to pay $30 for each body cord, just so they say Uhlmann, and work the same as a cord for half the price.

You get what you pay for. If you buy cheap Chinese junk, you'll be fixing and replacing often.

Foil:

Yes, I need a foil. But when I went to order it, I had no idea what half the terms meant. Allow me to start by saying that I need an FIE electric weapon. Grips, I kind of understand. Just, does the maker matter?

Manufacturers of grip? Doesn't really matter. The LP textured grip is sure sweet though


Guards have been a problem. I didn't know there were so many options. Are stainless (I assume this means stainless steel) bellguards worth the extra money? Are they better, and if yes, how so? And what does "light and strong" mean? The guard I have now has never had a problem, so I don't see needing a more expensive one.

Don't bother.


What's a nut? And what is the difference between an outside and inside nut?

The nut is what holds the grip to the blade. Outside is tightened by a tool that goes around the hex shaped nut. Inside is tightened by a device that goes into the hex shaped inside of a round nut. Matter of taste.

I didn't answer all of your questions, but hopefully some of this is helpful.

[brtech]

Originally Posted by RTW

...snip

Body Cord:

I will order a two-prong, no question. I've heard that bayonet is better, but my team only has two people that use bayonet. That being said, I need to know if all two-prong body cords are the same. More so than anything else, I need to know that they will all fit- that the prong size will be the same.

There are some fairly subtle differences. The "Uhlmann" type is widely copied. It has the clip you have trouble with. There is another style, the Prier, which uses a plastic clip on the weapon. While there are some advantages of that approach, probably better to stay with the Uhlmann style. Make sure both the cord and the socket are the german 2 pin.

Also, what is an "Italian" body cord? My friend uses one, but I am unfamiliar with this.

It's a different kind of bayonet. Very reliable. Very expensive. Not compatible with the LP bayonet.

Finally, how much does the brand matter? I'm not in a position to pay $30 for each body cord, just so they say Uhlmann, and work the same as a cord for half the price.

It matters, but only the usual way. You get what you pay for. The real thing lasts longer and has fewer problems. The copies work okay, but they don't last as long and have more problems. The Absolute is a decent version of the german 2 pin. The Favero is better, maybe even a bit better than the Uhlmann. It's easier to work on, that's for sure. They use a plastic clip. It doesn't tend to come apart as often, but it breaks. Nets out about the same.

One big problem I've been having with my body cords is that the clip breaks/ disappears/ unscrews/ etc. Is there any body cord that has a better clip than others?

Try the Favero. It's clip problems are different (as above). Some fencers have better luck with the Favero design. Others don't. The german design comes apart. If you tighten the screw every couple of weeks, that won't happen.

Grips, I kind of understand. Just, does the maker matter?

Not at this point. Get an insulated grip. If you go to a NAC, take the time to walk around and try the handle boards all the vendors have. You can figure out if any of them feel better or worse that what you are using. Go smaller, not larger in size when you are between sizes.

Guards have been a problem. I didn't know there were so many options. Are stainless (I assume this means stainless steel) bellguards worth the extra money? Are they better, and if yes, how so? And what does "light and strong" mean? The guard I have now has never had a problem, so I don't see needing a more expensive one.

Then don't waste your money. Get a basic guard. There are some really cheap ones out there that should be avoided, but the econo-guards from most reputable vendors are fine. Some folks really like the ultralight alloy guards. Let them spend their money on them. If you don't care about the weight difference (which is very small really), get the basic guard.

What's a nut? And what is the difference between an outside and inside nut? I googled this multiple times, but only found ways to put up a chain link fence.

The nut holds the handle on the tang of the blade. Most nuts use a hex shaped tool to tighten. An "outside" hex has a male shaped nut and uses a female tightening tool. An inside hex has a female shaped indentation in the top of a round outer shape, and uses a hex key (like an allen wrench) tightening tool. I recommend strongly that you use outside hex. Order a tool when you order your weapon. Inside hex is too easy to mess up the wrench opening, and can also be misused by cutting the tang too long. Outside hex has fewer problems all around.

What's a V2A point? How does it compare to German?

It's a harder version of the german barrel. I'd suggest you get the new FWF barrel. It is thicker and the screws go in flush.

Does the socket make a difference- which brand it is, etc?

I think the Uhlmann/Allstar/FWF socket is better than any of the copies. I'd spend the extra buck or two to get it. The problem of some of the copies is that the hole size is often a bit too big, and the result is occasional intermittent connections. YMMV.

Finally, the blade itself. I've come down to two choices. A Prieur (Prieur-FL) or a BF (Blue). The description of the Prieur is that it is light, which is the type of blade I like. But I had never heard of it before, and I've never used one. The BF I've used, and I like.

The Prier blade is okay. The BF is the best blade there is in most people's opinion. I like the LP upper end blades better than the Prier, but you are into subtle issues that I'm guessing you can't yet appreciate. See below

Despite some of what I've said here, price is not an object, at least not with the weapon. Body cords should probably be a little cheaper though.

You aren't making any sense. If price is not important, spend money on good cords before buying top of the line blades. If money matters, buy an STM blade until you have more experience. The Vnity is stiff, but lasts longer. I really like the LP Golubitsky-Pro.

I really hope I haven't asked silly questions, or too many of them. And I truly appreciate any help. Thank you.

Only the last part about buying the most expensive blades before getting high quality cords was silly.

Your coach could help with all of this, of course.

[migopod]

As far as inside vs outside hex nuts, You usually need a rather special wrench for the outside hex. A deep-well socket can sometimes be used, but normally there's not enough clearance inside the grip to use a hardware store wrench without thinning the socket quite a bit. The inside hex uses a pretty standard metric alan wrench that can be bought at your local hardware store. I've also had a few grips that had small enough holes that even the official, fencing-specific outside hex wrench wouldn't fit easily.

The one downsde to the inside hex is that the end of the tang needs to be cut to the correct length. The outside hex has a bit more flexibility when the tang is a little longer than it should be.

[brtech]

Every fencing supplier sells an outside hex tightening tool for about the same cost as a decent T handle hex wrench. The outside nuts are less expensive than the inside nuts. There is zero downside to using outside hex.

I do a fair amount of armory work. The number of problems with inside hex nuts is many times the problems of outside hex. The ONLY problem you are likely to see with an outside hex is a poorly executed bend in the tang ('cant') which doesn't allow the handle to sit correctly on the tang, and the result is that the tool can't get into the hole.

The number of 'buggered' inside hex nuts is large, and then what most people do is use a big screwdriver in the slot on top of the nut, and then it goes downhill from there. The tang too long problem is also pretty common. You see people with rounded off hex tools in buggered sockets on too long tangs a lot (the too long tang often leads to a misshapen socket, and farting around with that often screws up the tightening tool).

Use outside hex: much less hassle, and costs less. It's not a bit more flexible on tang length: it's a LOT more flexible. Look at it this way: the shortest the tang should be is maybe half the length of an outside nut. The longest it can be is the "inside" edge of the handle (any more, and it digs into your hand). That is roughly the length the nut or probably a bit more. For an inside nut it's half the length of the nut to about 3/4 the length of the nut (probably a few threads more). So, maybe one nut length+ vs 1/4 nut length+


It's also easier to tighten because the tool fits all the way around the nut, rather than sticking in several mm on top of the nut. For folks without a lot of hand strength, it's easier to put more force because the T handle is longer to begin with, and on most tightening tools, the handle slides out one side for more leverage. To be sure, a regular L shaped allen wrench has even more leverage, but its very awkward to use that kind of wrench with a fencing handle. T handles are much easier for most fencers.

[fatfencer]

The simple fact is is that you should never let anyone borrow your gear, and you should be so well prepared that you never have to borrow any gear.

In the salle, on days you aren't present, people will sometimes borrow your **** under the premise that you'd do it too if you needed to. It's ok if you remember to put it back....


Gawd I hate this line of thinking. I bring all my gear home every evening and I only bring 1 foil out of my car just to make sure no one borrows one.

I'm switching to Negrini bayonets now. I know I armor well enough to keep my gear working within regs. I might switch to the Chen knockoffs if they are reliable enough. The Italian socket, even the knockoffs seem idiot proof.

ANy thoughts about the Chen socket? WHat about the bayonet itself?

FF

[RTW]

Oh, wow. I really want to thank everyone for their help. It means a lot to me.

[Beloit Fencer of Old]

I have to second BR tech's firm support for the outside hex. Really...for all the times I had trouble getting my outside wrench around the nut on a badly canted blade in 20 years (once), I have spent 50x as much time trying to make sure someone's tang was cut JUST the right length for an inside hex. And the "screwdriver" nuts are even worse. Used to get those with Santelli gear way back when.

[Belegur]

Originally Posted by RTW

Body Cord:

I will order a two-prong, no question. I've heard that bayonet is better, but my team only has two people that use bayonet. That being said, I need to know if all two-prong body cords are the same. More so than anything else, I need to know that they will all fit- that the prong size will be the same.
Also, what is an "Italian" body cord? My friend uses one, but I am unfamiliar with this.
Finally, how much does the brand matter? I'm not in a position to pay $30 for each body cord, just so they say Uhlmann, and work the same as a cord for half the price.

There are really two phases you go through. When you're starting to buy your own stuff, the best thing to do is to get the cord that is most commonly used by others at your club, so that you can easily borrow another if something goes wrong with your personal ones.

On the other hand, once you've learned how to fix your own equipment, you mightn't be too inclined to lend it out to anyone else, so you go for what most people don't use in your area. Of course, this could be rather expensive if you have a lot of equipment to change.

Originally Posted by RTW

Guards have been a problem. I didn't know there were so many options. Are stainless (I assume this means stainless steel) bellguards worth the extra money? Are they better, and if yes, how so? And what does "light and strong" mean? The guard I have now has never had a problem, so I don't see needing a more expensive one.

The answer to this is simple. Get a Vniti aluminium guard. Not drastically expensive, light and impervious to damage beyond driving a truck over it.

Originally Posted by RTW

Finally, the blade itself. I've come down to two choices. A Prieur (Prieur-FL) or a BF (Blue). The description of the Prieur is that it is light, which is the type of blade I like. But I had never heard of it before, and I've never used one. The BF I've used, and I like.

Light blades are all well and good, but they do tend to be less durable than heavier blades. Out of the two blades you've mentioned, I'd probably go for the BF, if only for the fact that most people seem to like them (I didn't, but that's another story).

[SJCFU#2]

Just to be contrary I'll put in a word in favor inside-hex pommel nuts - however with some major caveats.

I have never had any problems with an inside hex pommel provided the tang was cut to the proper length. However the key phrase in that statement would be "cut to the proper length". In my case this generally entails purchasing blades with a full-length (French-grip) tang and cutting them down to the specific length that fits my grips (I have seen too many blades cut down for a pistol grip where the tang ended up being too short for my grips). The OP may be better off not getting into this.

In addition, I only use pommels with a recess for a 6mm hex allen wrench - no screwdriver slots. My observation has been that pommels slotted for use with a screwdriver are just plain too easy to mess up and should one side break off then they are a major pain it get out.

Having said that, I generally do recommend outside-hex pommels for club weapons, where blades and grips tend to get swapped about on a fairly regular basis, or for anyone who has yet to settle on a particular grip. The flexibility of the outside-hex allows with regard to tang length tends to outweigh the potential problems associated with a bent tang, a misaligned hole bored through the grip, or a tightening tool which splits open under load (all of may be rare, but do occur).