Coach take home salary

[guevarragv]

How do you determine the fencing club owner's take home pay and/or how do you determine the coach's (if more than one) take home pay?

[Allen Evans]

?

[(Floor fees/dues + Lesson fees) - (beer expense)] / Number of Coaches



You'll have to be a little more explicit.

Allen Evans

[Hauptman]

Generally the owner decides how much he takes home; although consulting with an accountant and/or the IRS is advisable.

[Fencergrl]

As much as I can.

[Wafath]

[(Floor fees/dues + Lesson fees) - (beer expense)] / Number of Coaches

So simple... so obvious! Now I know why I am not making any money coaching!

W

[Allen Evans]

So simple... so obvious! Now I know why I am not making any money coaching!

Because the numerator of the equation is always being driven towards zero by beer expense?

Allen

[tbryan]

How do you determine the fencing club owner's take home pay and/or how do you determine the coach's (if more than one) take home pay?

I think that you're not getting very complete answers because you're leaving too much open. People responding would have to write a huge reply to fill in the gaps.

Some examples:

There is a fencing club that is run as a business. There are two coaches at the club.

If two coaches also own the club and run the business, then they take home all of the profit! Revenue - expenses. They probably divide it based on the structure of the business: 50-50 if they're equal partners, etc.

If neither coach owns the business, then there is a separate business owner who owns and runs the club for a profit. The business owner takes home all of the profit (revenue - expenses), but now the coaches' pay and any perks are part of the expenses. In this case, the pay is determined like any other business. The owner needs to pay enough to get acceptable quality employees for his business plan and maximize his profit. The coaches then decide whether they will work for that amount. This amount will determined by "the market." You may need to pay more if there is another local club where the coach can work. You will need to pay more if cost of living is high in your area. You may be able to pay less if your club is isolated. (But the coach then has to weigh the opportunity cost of doing something else versus working for a pittance. He may also decide that it's worth the effort to start a competing club nearby or to relocate for better coaching work.)

In this case, note that the coaches may be underemployed. If the club's business plan is to run a recreational program where people come to have fun but rarely compete, then the business may be happy with a former fencer who likes working with people and sharing his interest in fencing. They probably would not be able to pay the rate that an elite level coach would expect. A former elite coach may decide to work for the program just for the fun of it, but now he's underemployed for his skills. Lucky you if you find such a coach.

If one coach owns the business, then it's like there's a separate business owner. The other coach is paid like an employee, and the coach/owner takes the remaining profit (if any).

And those are just a few options. If the club is run by a some sort of a board that rents space and hires the coach, then the club is more like a co-op. The coaches may be hired from outside the club, and members vote on fee structures and coach's pay.

I'm sure that there are many, many other possibilities.

Some pay structures that I've heard are:

• Hourly, coach is paid for his time by the hour, no matter what he's doing (classes, lessons, answering phones, etc.)
• Coach is given a fixed percentage of the fee for lessons he gives and a set amount per class he teaches
• Coach sets his own private lesson rate and keeps the entire fee, but he has to pay the club for the use of the facility
• Coach is also a club member and works simply to offset his own fees

Really, the best way to think about it to think about it from a business perspective. Perhaps your situation is murky because you're at a club that just made some sort of transition that will formalize a lot of things that used to be less formal. (For example, the club is growing and is hiring its first real employee. One owner-run club closed, and some of the former members are trying to reform and continue the club.)

Who owns the business? What's their business plan? Are they a for-profit business? What are their goals in running the club/business? Is the business owned by an individual or some sort of club board? The business plan and the goals of the club probably determine the pay that they are willing and able to offer. The coaches must then decide whether they are willing to work for that fee.

And we haven't even discussed college fencing clubs (the coaches may all be volunteers or may be hired out of club dues), fencing "clubs" that only exist as a set of classes through community schools, high school fencing teams, etc.

Like I said at first, you might want to provide more background so that others with similar experiences can share their stories.

Good luck!

[Craig]

Excellent post by tbryan.

The answer to the OP is really driven by the ownership structure and the business plan.

Craig

[Wafath]

Because the numerator of the equation is always being driven towards zero by beer expense?

It is a College club....

Actually my formula is slightly different:

[(Floor fees/dues) * (percent coaches get) + (Lesson fees) - (beer expense)] / Number of Coaches

In my case both lesson fees & percent coaches get = 0, so the beer costs _really_ eats into the profits!

W

[RITFencing]

Look on the bright side... Now the impact beer expense has on you goes down as the number of coaches goes up, with no less pay.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


If the coach is Swedish, you simply phone the local tax authority, which is bound by law to provide the details of the tax reports of all people living in Sweden. (well not everyone, not those in witness protection or some other very small groups.)

It is that simple -for real!


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Allen Evans]

It is that simple -for real!

Peter, that is simply frightening.

AE

[oso97]

Hi!


If the coach is Swedish, you simply phone the local tax authority, which is bound by law to provide the details of the tax reports of all people living in Sweden. (well not everyone, not those in witness protection or some other very small groups.)

It is that simple -for real!


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

You have GOT to be kidding me...

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

You have GOT to be kidding me...

Er... No.

I have not yet found a English-language link explaining this, but it is true. It is 01:37 here, so a detailed explanation will have to wait. 18-th century king, unintended consequences, journalists jealously guarding their rights, etc.

Meanwhile, some links:
Swedish Top-10 in taxed assets:
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article350706.ab

Top-8 lists for all counties in the Norrköping district:
http://norrkoping.expressen.se/nyhet...gan-dar-du-bor

The two fists relevant links that I found, but there are more. Anyway, it is a yearly ritual here: after the tax returns have been processed, journalists compile top lists for total assets and yearly income broken down by county, and add info for various celebrities who are not rich. Those articles have large readership, I recall reading somewhere.

ZZ can back me up.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[guevarragv]

Thanks tbryan, I'll contact you and let you know what's going on.

[oso97]

The two fists relevant links that I found, but there are more. Anyway, it is a yearly ritual here: after the tax returns have been processed, journalists compile top lists for total assets and yearly income broken down by county, and add info for various celebrities who are not rich. Those articles have large readership, I recall reading somewhere.

So, basically, its high tech peering through the fence into your neighbors yard?

And people call the British Tabloids "unseemly!"

[Rick Thompson]

Jerry Benson (Oklahoma) and Mark Masters (Philadelphia) have both given presentations on running a fencing school as a business. I think they have some published materials on the subject, which include paying the coach(es).

[jfarmer]

Jerry Benson (Oklahoma) and Mark Masters (Philadelphia) have both given presentations on running a fencing school as a business. I think they have some published materials on the subject, which include paying the coach(es).

Rick, do you know if the USFCA is going to put some of this material together and make it available? (I just checked and the website is remarkably sparse.)

[Rick Thompson]

The current USFCA website is, indeed, sparse on articles like that. The members area (once you are a member and log in) has much more information, but I don't think that it has an article on that.

The *new* and *improved* USFCA website, which is probably a month from being turned on, is a HUGE improvement (I'm one of the developers for it!). It will contain an area where members can access articles like this. We're putting a number of articles & previous thesis papers on the website, and the archive of old SwordMasters, which contain a lot of info for salles-as-businesses.

I'll check to see if anyone has an article specific to this - not sure.