Saber gear, with moderate expense?

[jkdjeff]

So, I took my first saber class this weekend after having fenced foil since October, and I think I dig it.

I'm going to use the equipment provided by my salle for further classes for a while to make sure I like it before investing any more money, but I want to start thinking about gear early, both for size issues (short and stocky makes it difficult to find borrowed gear that fits) and for issues relating to not wanting to rub too much of other people's sweat on myself.

So, does anyone have any recommendations for relatively inexpensive but good quality choices for the following (these are the only saber-specific items I'd need, everything else I can share across from foil):

-Saber mask
-Saber lame
-Saber glove (I've heard that the lame "covers" for regular gloves are unwieldy)
-Saber weapons

I plan on following up with my coaches to get their recommendations, of course, but I always like to get a variety of input on decisions like these. Spending a little more for quality is fine, but I don't need to gear myself up like I'm going to be fencing in the Olympics this year.

[Blakeian]

StM blades are cheap and I know a few people who use them. You can get a competition ready weapon for as cheap as $50, perhaps cheaper if you find someone selling their old gear.

You can buy a gauntlet which goes over the top of your glove for as cheap as $12.

I wouldn't skimp on a mask as it is arguably the single most important piece of equipment you will own.

Lame's - I know Absolute make cheap lames but I have no idea about the quality.

Most of this stuff you should be able to pick up from any vendor but to get an idea of prices and even reviews look at the fencing.net shop.

[Purple Fencer]

-Saber mask Absolute FIE $150 (GREAT price for an FIE mask...and like Blakeian said, this is the one item you don't want to skimp on)
-Saber lame JL $90
-Saber glove (I've heard that the lame "covers" for regular gloves are unwieldy) Post $25 (combo glove....not just the manchette)
-Saber weapons $70 (StM blade)

These are my prices, by the way. The real cost drivers are teh mask and teh lame...the weapon's the cheap part!

[SJCFU#2]

You might consider spending extra for a Leon Paul X-change mask. The first thing that goes on a saber mask is usually the conductive bib so being able to easily replace it is definitely an advantage.

An inexpensive lame such as the JL or basic Absolute would probably be fine for occasional use (or if you aren't certain how much you are interested in continuing saber) however they generally aren't known for long-term durability. If you find that you are seriously interested in competitive saber then you will probably want to upgrade before long.

A manchette would be less expensive but I personally would rather a little more for a combination glove (I never liked the fit of a manchette).

The saber itself is probably the easiest thing (and at this point probably the easiest thing to borrow from the club - no size or sweat issues). Most people eventually come to the conclusion that saber blades are consumable items and as such don't bother with expensive blades (as previously mentioned, basic STM blades are popular).

The one thing that I don't see listed is a mask cord (for connecting the mask to the lame).

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by SJCFU#2

ng.


The one thing that I don't see listed is a mask cord (for connecting the mask to the lame).

Oops...$7

[jkdjeff]

Thanks for all the good advice. I like the suggestion of the X-change mask, since I suspected that the conductive bib might not live as long as the mask.

I don't mind spending a bit more for quality, that's what I did with most of my foil gear, I just don't want to overspend on things I don't need.

[SJCFU#2]

If you don't mind spending a few extra dollars then you might consider a few upgrades beyond just an LP X-Change mask.

An inoxidizable lame will generally last longer and would probably be worth the cost if it is likely to see regular use. Many people consider the LP lightweight lames among the best available. Allstar and Uhlmann lames also have a reputation for holding up well although their quality may have started to slip a bit in recent years.

I'm not sure if Purple Fencer has released a saber version of his Armor Two glove yet, but if he has then it may be among the best on the market.

I would recommend spending the few extra dollars for a coiled head cord - most people find that the added flexibility justifies the additional cost.

[jkdjeff]

I have a standard LP lame for foil, and probably will go the same route for saber if I end up liking it.

Boy, this is turning out to be a spendy hobby.

[KD5MDK]

You haven't started flying to tournaments, have you?

[jkdjeff]

Not yet, I actually have severe difficulties flying (due to extreme vertigo that medication doesn't help much) so that's a ways off.

I am, however, probably going to go to the Portland NAC just to watch, since I can Amtrak to that.

[CvilleFencer]

I would also encourage you to spend a bit more over the very cheap gear if you think that saber is something you will fence much. The JL/Absolute lames just plain and simple do not last long. Also I hate manchete/overglove and recommend an all in one glove to people. I love the LP and the new FWF is possibly even more awesome than the LP. For the lame, I would go with just about anything over the Chinese made ones but I at my club we mostly use LP (and then mostly the lightweight) and I gotta say the things are pretty amazing in their ability to take damage and keep going year after year. To me LP or any other good, well made lame is worth the extra money if you think you will be in the sport a while.

[MaddMatt05]

I'm just curious, concerning the LP x-change mask, if you could buy a saber mask, and then buy a second non-conductive bib to use for dry practice and foil competition. Would this cause any problems?

[jkdjeff]

I don't THINK you can compete in foil/epee with a saber mask, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work for fencing those weapons dry, or even in more casual electric bouting if you switched out the bibs.

[SJCFU#2]

Originally Posted by MaddMatt05

I'm just curious, concerning the LP x-change mask, if you could buy a saber mask, and then buy a second non-conductive bib to use for dry practice and foil competition. Would this cause any problems?

Strictly speaking it would not be allowed for competition. The mesh of a foil mask is required to be insulated inside and out (m.27) while the mesh of a saber mask is required to be electrically conductive (m.32). That being said, it does happen sometimes, and not just at the local level.

There is a potential disadvantage to your opponent - the uninsulated mesh could short the tip of their foil to the barrel, preventing an off-target touch from registering. However this shouldn't happen if your opponent's tip is properly taped so I doubt that they would get much sympathy if the machine failed to register an off-target touch (especially since the tip is likely to have bounced off of a mask too quickly to register the touch in the first place). There is also a potential disadvantage to you in that should you sweat enough to form an electrical connection between your mask and lame then your entire head would effectively become valid target. Should this happen you can expect no sympathy because it was your choice to wear the mask in the first place.

If you do decide to take this route then I would recommend a back-up plan for competition (either a second mask or the ability to borrow one), just in case someone does decide to raise the issue.

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by jkdjeff

I don't THINK you can compete in foil/epee with a saber mask, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't work for fencing those weapons dry, or even in more casual electric bouting if you switched out the bibs.

At nationals it would be a problem. At lower level competition, it might be acceptable.

In foil it would have a chance of expanding target to your head, and in epee if the tip hit wrong it would ground out and there would be no light.