How best to become a fencing teacher/coach?

[Timberwolf_CY]

Title says it all. What would be the best way, in your opinion to become a decent fencing coach/teacher?

I myself have been fencing for about 4 years. I have an E06 rating in Foil. I was the president of my recreational sport fencing club at University of Central Missouri (about an hour outside KC on the Missouri side) and taught many college and high school students there how to fence. Indeed, I spent so much time teaching, I was unable to renew my rating in 2007 (though I got damned close one time).

My education is pretty spotty itself, mostly I think through my combined lack of motivation and three chronic diseases: asthma, diabetes, and bi-polar. All are under pretty good control now I am proud to say, but my past education suffered for the time I was undiagnosed. I have a large part of my degree done in Secondary Education/Social Studies, and a little work done in Computer Information Systems, but both degree choices are riddled with a liberal helping of C's, and more than a few F's.

I like competing in fencing. I like going to tournaments and beating the snot out of people (not in the sense of "I'm better than you, ha ha!" but rather, savoring the feeling of victory) and making myself feel good and showcasing what I am capable of; equally, I am very able to take even the worst most humiliating losses and not be fazed by them; I am always a good sport: I NEVER yell or dance or pull off victory moves on the strip, which in my mind is in severe lack of taste and sportsmanship.

What I really like to do is teach, and absorb knowledge. I have read at least 8 books on the topic of fencing from cover to cover, a few more than once. I have written my own book on how to run a college recreational fencing club (no, literally: it's 123 pages long, 8 1/2 x 11", single spaced, with only three graphics; though, I plan on taking some pictures to solve that last problem for the next printing). I love learning. More than all that though, I love spreading knowledge. I love seeing people succeed, particularly when the odds are against them. I love to see the twinkle in someone's eye when they finally "get it" and they perform successfully as I have taught them.

As you have gathered by now, I am really wanting to teach fencing. I am 24 years old, I have some money put away, and am still eligible for student loans. My question to you is: what would be the best way to go about becoming a fencing teacher?

All my experience fencing has been at UCM. I was "brought up" as a pure recreational fencer. But I want to be more than that. I know that to be a fencing teacher one must have teaching from a professional, or at least something close to it.

So the question is, what route do I follow. I want to have the qualifications, both as a fencer, and in title. I'm sure if I tried I could qualify as an Instructor with probably only a year or two's worth of training; as a prevost with maybe five. But again, what course to take? I don't think I have what it takes to be a real "Master" but again, I'm not sure what I'm capable of: I got my E within my first year of fencing, so I know I have some amount of talent.

My current plan is: get my bachelor's in Physical Education from UCM or else St. Louis after I transfer as many of my Gen-Ed credits as possible. After that I'm not sure. There are plenty of clubs in the KC area to choose from, but not so much in St. Louis. I was thinking my ultimate goal would be to go to San Jose and get an Instructor's or Provost's certificate there, but I am sure that I will require much training before I can do that. O will I?

If you have truly read all this, as you can tell, I have a lot of blanks in my mind. Currently I am in Taiwan, but indications are becoming clear that I'll have to head back to the States as I cannot get a job teaching English (they changed the law before I came over and I didn't know it). This may all change if I can find a certification program, but so far those all require a bachelor's degree.

So, what I am looking for is some guidance. What would be the best route to becoming a fencing teacher, for one in my situation?

Thank you very much, and sorry for the book; I just wanted to get as much information out there as possible to help you help me.

[Cookeit]

My current plan is: get my bachelor's in Physical Education from UCM or else St. Louis after I transfer as many of my Gen-Ed credits as possible.

Currently I am in Taiwan, but indications are becoming clear that I'll have to head back to the States as I cannot get a job teaching English (they changed the law before I came over and I didn't know it).

If you want a job teaching English then why are you taking classes to become a gym teacher?

But more on topic... based on reading this I would say based on your skill level (E06 and not able to renew it), you have some work ahead of you to become a respected coach.

[oiuyt]

I have written my own book on how to run a college recreational fencing club (no, literally: it's 123 pages long, 8 1/2 x 11", single spaced, with only three graphics; though, I plan on taking some pictures to solve that last problem for the next printing).

How are you distributing it? Is it available online?

-B

[Timberwolf_CY]

If you want a job teaching English then why are you taking classes to become a gym teacher?

(they changed the law before I came over and I didn't know it). This may all change if I can find a certification program, but so far those all require a bachelor's degree.

Apparently I wasn't clear. Seeing as how they changed the law in the fact that you have to have a bachelor's to teach English, I can no longer teach English. I don't really want to teach English, it was just a job that I could get that didn't require me to speak Chinese and provided me with the socialized healthcare. Since teaching English is no longer an easily feasible option, I want to put my work into something meaningful, rather than something I don't want to do.

But more on topic... based on reading this I would say based on your skill level (E06 and not able to renew it), you have some work ahead of you to become a respected coach.

Obviously. But the question was, what kind, and where to find the coaching for myself?

How are you distributing it? Is it available online?

I am only making it available to family, friends, and my own [former] fencing club. The four copies of the first printing have already been distributed: one for myself, another for the my former club's new leader (who it was originally meant for), one to my step-dad, and one to the former president of the club before he handed it off to me. I plan on a second printing with pictures, diagrams, expanded text, many typographical corrections, and a full index, but that will not be prepared for some time. It will also be in hardback. I would e-mail you a copy, but I'm not keen on my work getting distributed throughout the Internet; it was made for a select group of people. I may look into "real" publishing later, but that will be after I have had more formal fencing training and some real time and most importantly life experience to look back and edit the work. If you are interested in a hardback copy, which should be finished and at the printer say within two months, it will be at cost to print the book; I am not looking for a profit; plus up to five dollars for shipping. Sorry for the long story and that it is not in "ebook" form or anything. However, do let me know if you are interested in the second printing, I have a list of about 10 people who are already interested.

[hr]

On topic, it occured to me I could persue a Phys. Ed. degree AND fencing at the same time at San Jose, since the fencing classes there for the Instructor level take 6 semester hours; if I add another 6 hours, that will be twelve, which should make me a full time student, thus making me eligible for financial aid....decisions, decisions...

edit again: anyone know the code for a horizontal rule?

[Allen Evans]

Advice I gave a few years ago:

Very few coaches in the United States make their sole living as fencing coaches. Most of us have jobs or significant others that support what we do. However, with a little planning, some perseverance, and some luck, it's possible to turn fencing into a career.

Some advice now, before you have to make some difficult decisions:

1. Keep fencing. The more experience you have as a fencer, now, when you're young enough to train and compete a lot, the more you will bring to the sport in your later years. Dabble in more than one weapon, later in your career. Take advantage of camps and training seminars outside of where you are.

2. Take care of yourself. Avoid risky behavior like smoking. Eat healthy, lift weights, stretch, and study how your body works and functions. It's the tool you are going to be using the rest of your life and you'll need to get a lot of mileage out of it. The base physical conditioning you put down now will give you a long career.

3. Educate yourself about your sport. Learn the history behind it. Not just the ancient history, but talk to the older fencers around you about old practices and rules. D'Angelo is important, but so is Romankov. Knowing where fencing came from can help you see where it is going. "Everything old is new again."

4. Pick good mentors and advisers. I can't tell you how valuable coaches like Ed Richards, Gary Copeland, Jim Denton, Vinnie Bradford and others have been to me. When I have a problem I can't solve, I go to them.

5. Continue with your education. Fencing doesn't always pay the bills at first, and having something to fall back on is invaluable. It could even be something related to fencing such as a degree in sports science or sports management. Education - especially higher education - opens up your mind to thinking in concepts and generalities, rather than just facts. You'll need that, later.

6. Keep laughing. A lot. The first time you see someone you've worked hard to train completely fall to pieces on the strip, the only thing that will save you, and your student, is a sense of humor.



AE

[LeftHanded]

I was going to train to be a coach but unfortuantly school got in the way so I couldn't. Anyways, find a coach in the area that you know and tell him what you would like to do. How better to learn to be a coach than from a coach. The path that I was going to take was that my coach had classes every wednesday at 3 and he taught you how to become a coach

[Durando]

What Allen said. But, as you are young and have no fear of travel, I would encourage you to forgo the San Jose program and instead put that time and money which would otherwise be put toward learning very classical technique (and little pedagogy) and go live in Germany or France for the three or four years it would take you to complete fencing master's training. When you come back, look for a university job someplace that would allow you to do a master's in kinesiology.

[tbryan]

4. Pick good mentors and advisers. I can't tell you how valuable coaches like Ed Richards, Gary Copeland, Jim Denton, Vinnie Bradford and others have been to me. When I have a problem I can't solve, I go to them.

If you do not take Durando's advice, and you choose to stay in the U.S., one way to meet and work with coaches outside of your region is to attend the USFA Coaches College. It should be starting back up in the summer of 2009. I'd point you to the website, but it looks like the DNS registration expired.

You could also participate in USFCA activities in your region. Members of the USFCA sometimes organize seminars and workshops. Take advantage of these opportunities to learn from other coaches.

Of course, you'll still need to learn how to judge whether another coach knows what he's talking about.

[Timberwolf_CY]

Thank you all for the kind words. Despite being in Taiwan, traveling to France or Germany never really occurred to me, despite having a moderate knowledge of German. That gives me a lot to think about guys, thanks.

Now the question becomes: how would I survive in Europe. I do have SOME money put away, but I mean, how would I make a living? Would I be able to get financial aid from the states somehow to finance my fencing education in Germany (which is where I would probably go, seeing as how I speak a little...how fortuitous...)? Bank loans possible? I just don't know how I would finance that. My German is not nearly good enough to get by at a job, at least I don't think.

Thanks again for the input everyone, you all have been very helpful.

[oiuyt]

Not to mention that working (legally) in Germany (or France) as a non-EU citizen could present some difficulties.

-B

[Rick Thompson]

tbryan mentioned the USFCA. Contact the Regional VP where you might end up back in the US and discuss options with them. They can point you to a coach under whom you might mentor/apprentice.

The US Fencing Coaches Assoc plans to host a week-long seminar this summer. This will allow those who might have attended the USFA Coaches College to still go through a week-long training session. Certification tests will also be held at the end of the week. Keep alert for more info on this!

[Timberwolf_CY]

Not to mention that working (legally) in Germany (or France) as a non-EU citizen could present some difficulties.

-B

No kidding. I can just see my passport now:
[STAMP]Deportation to Kosovo[/STAMP]

tbryan mentioned the USFCA. Contact the Regional VP where you might end up back in the US and discuss options with them. They can point you to a coach under whom you might mentor/apprentice.

The US Fencing Coaches Assoc plans to host a week-long seminar this summer. This will allow those who might have attended the USFA Coaches College to still go through a week-long training session. Certification tests will also be held at the end of the week. Keep alert for more info on this!

Good points. I will look up their websites and see what they say.

Thanks again guys.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I hate to break it to you, but a two year old E rating isnt anything to brag about. Its an accomplishment, but this whole thing will go better if you achieve some more competitive success. You don't want your students mopping you off the strip after 6 months.

With that said, competitive success does not guarantee that you will be a good coach. Keep learning about fencing, because there is a lot to learn.

When you're ready, there will be students.

[samh]

I agree with DFP, I think working primarily on your own fencing would benefit your longer term coaching goals.

[Durando]

I hate to break it to you, but a two year old E rating isnt anything to brag about. Its an accomplishment, but this whole thing will go better if you achieve some more competitive success. You don't want your students mopping you off the strip after 6 months.

With that said, competitive success does not guarantee that you will be a good coach. Keep learning about fencing, because there is a lot to learn.

When you're ready, there will be students.

I'm an E. Want to take a lesson?

Three or four years abroad learning about fencing will turn you into a coach, but not necessarily into a brilliant fencer.

[Rick Thompson]

On the other hand, nothing crystalizes your own learning and understanding better than having to teach it to someone else.

If an "E" fencer is assisting a coach, or teaching a beginner's class, or otherwise not dedicating themselves fulltime to coaching, then learning to teach and continuing a competitive career are not intrinsically opposed.

And, if teaching allows a person to gather around them a group where one did not exist before, then *absolutely* start to teach.

The most important thing, though, is to teach the beginners correctly.

If you're going to work on teaching, I would strongly recommend that you study with a more senior coach. Even if you have to travel to take lessons/class from someone further away.

You can find clinics to attend either solo or with your group.

Another thing to consider is to setting up a set of classes/clinics in your location and having a coach travel to you to teach. This is, of course, best done as a weekend activity, perhaps all day on a Saturday or Sunday.

Sometimes, a good coach is a leader that is able to motivate his/her athletes to train and perhaps exceed his/her own capabilities. There are number of coaches that work with beginners, and whose students move on to other coaches when they've received the full benefit of that coach. The world *needs* this level of coach - not everyone can be a national level coach....

[dridge]

I'm an E.

The title says it all.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I'm an E. Want to take a lesson?

Three or four years abroad learning about fencing will turn you into a coach, but not necessarily into a brilliant fencer.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure you fence a lot better than most E's. You've also been fencing for a long time.

Do you not agree that competitive experience and success can play a role in determining the ability of the coach?

And yeah, a lesson sometime would be great. I could learn stuff from you.

[Hobbes]

Sometimes, a good coach is a leader that is able to motivate his/her athletes to train and perhaps exceed his/her own capabilities. There are number of coaches that work with beginners, and whose students move on to other coaches when they've received the full benefit of that coach. The world *needs* this level of coach - not everyone can be a national level coach....

I think this is an important point, thanks Rick. I want to teach fencing one day in the future, and this is the level of fencing that really has an impact I think. If you have done some training with other coaches to improve your skill set, and solidify your knowledge of the basics, look to a local YMCA or boys and girls club.

I have found that coaches are usually more than happy to lend a hand if your goal is to teach beginners and spread fencing. Of course having said this, my wife is finishing her law degree and I plan on living off her for the rest of my life, so I don't plan on getting rich off fencing.

I would mention this to a successful coach in your area and see what they say. if nothing else it would be a wonderful step towards becoming a much stronger coach.

[geofmclean]

On the other hand, nothing crystalizes your own learning and understanding better than having to teach it to someone else.

If an "E" fencer is assisting a coach, or teaching a beginner's class, or otherwise not dedicating themselves fulltime to coaching, then learning to teach and continuing a competitive career are not intrinsically opposed.

And, if teaching allows a person to gather around them a group where one did not exist before, then *absolutely* start to teach.

The most important thing, though, is to teach the beginners correctly.

If you're going to work on teaching, I would strongly recommend that you study with a more senior coach. Even if you have to travel to take lessons/class from someone further away.

You can find clinics to attend either solo or with your group.

Another thing to consider is to setting up a set of classes/clinics in your location and having a coach travel to you to teach. This is, of course, best done as a weekend activity, perhaps all day on a Saturday or Sunday.

Sometimes, a good coach is a leader that is able to motivate his/her athletes to train and perhaps exceed his/her own capabilities. There are number of coaches that work with beginners, and whose students move on to other coaches when they've received the full benefit of that coach. The world *needs* this level of coach - not everyone can be a national level coach....

Rick - I agree on all points. As an "E"-ranked fencer in small-town Nebraska where nothing existed, I started teaching a year ago. Now we've got a club of around a dozen members - and yes, some of the guys can beat me now and are looking for the next level.

We're going to local tournaments and getting a lot of advice that we are using to improve. Only a minority of "real" coaches have shown anything less than a helpful attitude in regards to our efforts. They recognize that any effort to grow the sport is good for fencing.

Why discourage anyone from pursuing coaching, competing, refereeing or any fencing-related activity?