I avoid DELTA if at all possible. In 2003, my son was going to JO's in Salt Lake City. Leaving Amarillo the day before the competition began, our flight was cancelled. We were told we could not get another Delta flight until the next day (about one hour after his first event began). Luckily, we were able to get flights on Southwest but we had to change planes twice in Albuquerque and Las Vegas before the final flight arrived in Salt Lake City at about 2 a.m. (Delta DID NOT pay for these two tickets. We had to buy new tickets.) In addition, the connecting times were so short that we were told that his check-in luggage would not make it to SLC until the next day. So we had to take everything except his weapons with us on the plane and buy weapons at the venue the next morning. My wife arrived with his bag about halfway through the DE's the next day.
If that wasn't enough, when JO's were over, we were returning to the airport and shortly after I dropped off my rental car, my secretary from back home calls me on my cell phone to tell me that Delta had called my office to tell me that my flight back home had been cancelled. No reason was provided. It definitely was not a weather problem because it was a beautiful day. We tried to get out of SLC all day long. American tried to get us on but they were booked up. Delta finally got us on another flight about 9 p.m. We had been at the airport for about 12 hours at that time. We get to DFW too late to get home and they put us up at a hotel (without our luggage - which somehow never arrived in Dallas with the plane). The next morning at DFW we finally get on a plane to get home, which sits on the tarmac for 2 hours and then goes back to the gate with mechanical problems. We get off and wait another 2 to 3 hours before another plane finally shows up and gets us to Amarillo.
Most of our fellow fencers who drove to Salt Lake City and back got home 15 to 20 hours before we did even though we left about the same time.
That was the last time that I flew Delta where I had a choice.
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If everything you try works, you are not trying hard enough.
Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
A quick thought just popped into my head: Complaining to the airline is one route but consider also writing to or otherwise contacting the Atlanta airport. The airline makes and enforces (or doesn't) their own rules but when it's done in such a manner that it leaves a negative impression of the airport itself...! I doubt the airport will give you a voucher for the $50 but if enough people let them know about the uneven treatment they received from the airline -- with the negative end being in Atlanta -- they just might lean on the airline a bit. Dunno, might be worth a shot if enough people do it.
(My bold) I think this is a good idea.
I noticed in some college-search travel last summer that much can depend on the individual airport.
We left Houston Hobby and returned from Providence, RI. On the return trip (same type of plane) we had the exact same things in the exact same bags and amazingly enough, our bags were overweight. I just looked at the gate agent and told her that we didn't have 20# extra weight in either bag and it was what we flew up there with.
Since you can't argue with a wall, I paid my $25 fee.
I think the Hobby people just didn't bother to charge me. When I saw the "heavy" tag in Providence, I realized there had been one from Hobby, but no charge.
So maybe a little note to the airport itself is in order. And include a link or website that shows that fencing is an Olympic sport. If the landlord comes to you and says "let these people through", maybe the airlines will pay attention.
Our nearest airport is a Delta hub, so we fly Delta a lot. Our kids' fencing bags missed a flight to ABQ once, but they were delivered to our hotel a few hours later. Other than that, we've never had a problem w/ Delta; no extra charges for fencing bags, no cancelled flights, few delays, and never long. Maybe we're just lucky.
My worst experience ever was flying out of LAX on United. The check-in line was 2 hours long. We were there in plenty of time to make our flight, but we didn't get to the front of the line until after our flight had left. Polite attempts to flag down United personnel to explain our need to get processed were met by threats to call Homeland Security.
I think more than anything it depends on the airport and the route.
Oh, and Southwest has always been good. Never a problem. Their routes often don't work for us, though.
After reading all of these posts, flights that connect through Atlanta seem to be the ones who get charged. I'm guessing they don't charge it to go on the first flight to their so that they can charge you $50 while you're in the middle of no-where, not knowing anyone and have to pay for it.
Perhaps we are complaining to the wrong people? If the USFA says anything then I'm pretty sure they will change it. After all, fencing is an olympic sport. Let's see AirTran change an olympian $50 and say that fencing isn't a sport.
Well our local law enforcement would differ with you there. My son was pulled over for his first speeding ticket last summer and when the cop asked if he had an weapons in the car, he sheepishly said no and took his ticket.
He asked me later what he should have said and I conferred with a friend who is with our sheriff's department who told me they are NOT weapons, but it would not hurt to qualify the answer by saying you do have fence and have SPORTING equipment in the car.
Maybe we need to send some of Jacksonville's finest to the Atlanta airport to straighten this out.
L
Reminds me of an anecdote about the late Maestro Csiszar. Csiszar and another fencer were driving back from somewheres at a fencing tournament and were stopped by the police or even the military (this is during the red-scare of the 60s). They look around the car and spoke with the driver who tried to be as unassuming and nonchalant as possible. They asked if there were weapons and Csiszar roared out in his thick hungarian accent, "Weapons!?! We've the weapoons. The best!"
The absolute worst flight experience for me, which would probably top anyone elses, would be with the no-longer-in-business Tower Air. That miserable airline was, without a doubt, the absolute worst airline that could ever be called an airline.
This occurred in 1998 as I flew from SFO to JFK to compete in the briefly existing PFL tournament. Given that Tower Air is uber cheap, I took the advantage to buy an upgrade to first class (on a 747), but the first class section of this 747 was nothing more than a small cabin upstairs with slightly larger seats. Oh well, it was just $50 more.
We took off at 9PM for a red-eye to JFK. About 2 hours into the flight, we get a problem that required an emergency landing in Colorado Springs CO. Apparently a fire alarm signalled within the cargo hold. We sat on the Tarmac first for one hour, then two then three. The flight attendant was rather testy (but I guess I could commiserate with her).
We were eventually allowed to get out of the plane and buy some food in the airport. Then, after everything was checked, we couldn't leave Colorado Springs. They didn't have the proper hitch for 747s. So they had to bring one over from Denver. Four hours, five, six...seven. We stayed either in the terminal or the plane.
After 12 hours, we took off and got into JFK at around 8PM. Unfortunately, my bags were not with me. So while I was in NY on time, with competition still on the next day, my bags were to arrive the next morning.
I rented a car, drove into Manhattan (and found parking!) and stayed over with a friend for the evening. Called the next morning to check on the bags. Now, I'm getting antsy. The competition was that day, with check-in at 10AM. It was upstate wherever it was where PFL was based. Tower Air said 8AM for the bags. Nope, no bags. 10AM...nope. Noon...nope. 4PM, finally got the bags.
By now, I'm done and know I wouldn't be competing. Oh well. Got the bags, drove down to Philly to meet old friend and kill time as I won't be leaving until Sunday afternoon.
Sunday afternoon, called to check on flight. Cancelled. Monday morning. Called again...delayed, Monday evening. So, left Philly at 3PM to get back to JFK, as the flight was scheduled for 9PM. Dropped off car at 6PM (because otherwise I'd be charged more, don't exactly remember what happened). Dropped off bags at the terminal. Rode the inter-terminal shuttle bus around JFK to kill time because the Tower Air terminal was dead as a doornail. Walked around the British Air terminal because that's the only one with a gift shop where I can buy something to read. Actually walked around the whole JFK (to the extent that I can walk). Walked around until 9PM when the last shuttle operated. Shuttled back to Tower Air.
Ah, they've opened parts of the Tower Air terminal, so I got in and sat in the bar/restaurant. 9PM flight is now delayed to 11PM. Sat around had a drink or two. Nope, 1AM. Nope 2AM. Finally got on board at around 2:30AM. Oops, maintenance forgot to clean out the toilet tanks. Stinks to high heaven as they clean out the toilets. 5AM, we leave. Got to SFO at around 9AM. What a miserable pissed time with a miserable airline.
Reminds me of an anecdote about the late Maestro Csiszar. Csiszar and another fencer were driving back from somewheres at a fencing tournament and were stopped by the police or even the military (this is during the red-scare of the 60s).
I believe it was at the Canadian border.
-B
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"Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
When setting up my travel arrangements for JO's with the USFA, I had a choice between Delta and American. The American flight was more expensive, and the USFA was going to make me pay the difference. I did so GLADLY. I'd rather walk than fly Delta.
One thing you may want to consider is the fact that American Airlines does NOT have a luggage tracking system. It appears that they do from the tags but they do not. Once your bags have been checked they have no way to find out where they are if they don't make it to your destination.
United has a tracking system.
American will not pull people out of line if they are about to miss their flight.
Southwest will pull people out of line.
On SWA if the fare goes down you will be credited the difference for future travel. If you have to change or cancel, you are not charged a change fee. Just the new fare which may be higher or lower. If you cancel, you have the whole fare as credit for future use for travel in anyone's name.
United, Delta, American and others charge change fees of $100.00 or more. If you cancel, and receive a voucher, the voucher is non transferable.
To fly earlier on Southwest, you have to pay the full upgrade fare. To fly earlier on Delta, United or American, it is $50.00 within a three hour period for a confirmed seat, sometimes free on standby.
As for Airtran, round trip from LA to Atlanta on Airtran was $244.00 add the $50.00 for the fencing bag and it was still cheaper than $370.00 on Delta.
On most airlines except Southwest, if you don't fly out on the outbound your return is automatically cancelled. (I found that out when we had to pay $600.00 for a one way home from Hartford.)
No airline is perfect. There are pros and cons to all of them. Go for the best fare, the best time, non stops and if you have to make a connection try not to connect through Chicago in the winter.
I've been compiling this for my club, but I thought I'd share it with all of you. I've only included domestic airlines that fly out of Philly because that's the stuff I book most often.
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Fencers and fencing families, this guide is designed to help you avoid paying surcharges on top of your plane tickets. Note that many airlines are beginning to add charges for additional bags, bags that are too large, and bags that weigh too much. Many wheel bags will not pass the size limits. You may want to consider beginning to pack your fencing gear in your carry-on luggage, leaving only the weapons and tools in your checked bag. This will help keep your bag to a smaller size and weight, and also means that you have less to replace if your gear doesn’t quite make it in time for your events.
All of the fees listed stack on top of each other, so excess baggage that was over the weight and size limits would incur three sets of fees.
How a Bag is Measured
A bag will be weighed and measured to ensure that it meets the dimensional requirements for shipping. Baggage is measured by length + width + height. The dimensions of each measurement are added together to compose the total number of linear inches/ centimeters. The bag's thickest or widest part of the length, width and height will be measured.
Checked Bag Limit: 2 bags free. $50 for additional bags.
Size limits. Up to 61 inches is free. 62 to 70 inches is $50. 71 to 80 inches is $65.
Weight limits. Up to 50 lb is free. 51-70 lb is $25. 71-100 lb is $65
Sporting equipment. Selected sporting equipment may be a part of the free baggage allowance when checked in lieu of the first piece of luggage acceptable under this allowance. Lists items for the following sports: bowling, fishing, golfing, shooting, skiing, surfing (boogie boards), snowboarding. Lists other sports (cycling, scuba, and surfing (surfboards) for which a $65 charge will be assessed. Many fencers have been hit by this charge.
Checked Bag Limit: 2 bags free. $80 per piece for the first three additional pieces. $105 per piece for the fourth, fifth, and sixth additional pieces. $180 per piece for the seventh and any additional pieces.
Size limits. Up to 61 inches is free. 62 to 115 inches is $100.
Weight limits. Up to 50 lb is free. 51-70 lb is $50. 71-100 lb is $100.
Sporting equipment. No separate policy for fencing equipment, although there are allowances for some sports, including golf.
Checked Bag Limit: 2 bags free. $80 per piece for the first three additional pieces. $105 per piece for the fourth, fifth, and sixth additional pieces. $180 per piece for the seventh and any additional pieces.
Size limits. Up to 61 inches is free. 62 to 115 inches is $100.
Weight limits. Up to 50 lb is free. 51-70 lb is $50. 71-100 lb is $100.
Sporting equipment. No separate policy for fencing equipment although there are allowances for some sports, including golf.
Checked Bag Limit: 2 bags free. $50 for additional bags.
Size limits. Up to 62 inches is free. 62-80 inches is $50.
Weight limits. Under 50 lb is free. 51-100 lb is $50.
Sporting equipment. Fencing equipment is limited to one bag which may include swords, mask, outfit and shoes, cables, screwdriver (or toolkit), electricity tester, gloves, and breast plate, or cup protector. It is shipped for free or in place of one standard bag, and requires a Limited Release waiver, if not packaged in a hard-sided case.
Checked Bag Limit: 2 bags free. $80 per piece for the first three additional pieces. $105 per piece for the fourth, fifth, and sixth additional pieces. $180 per piece for the seventh and any additional pieces.
Size limits. Up to 62 inches is free. 63-160 inches is $80.
Weight limits. Under 50 lb is free. 51-70 lb is $25.
Sporting equipment. No separate policy for fencing equipment, although there are allowances for some sports, including golf.
Checked Bag Limit: Before 5/5/08 - 2 bags free. $85 for 3rth and 4th bags. $125 for 5th and 6th bags. $200 for any additional bags. After 5/5/08 – 1 bag free. 2nd through 5th bags for $100. $200 for any additional bags.
Size limits. Up to 62 inches is free. 62-115 inches is $100.
Weight limits. Under 50 lb is free. 51-100 lb is $50 ($100 after 5/5/08). Sporting equipment. No separate policy for fencing equipment, although there are allowances for some sports, including golf.
Checked Bag Limit: 2 bags free. $100 for additional bags.
Size limits. Up to 62 inches is free. 62-115 inches is $100.
Weight limits. Under 50 lb is free. 51-70 lb is $50.
Sporting equipment. No separate policy.
Continental does have a policy for sports equipment. While it does not mention fencing, it does include golf bags and I have yet to have any CO rep ask what's in the golf case:
Linear Mode
