Unsportsmanlike Behavior

[gatsby]

^^
lol at above post. i don't know the answer, but even if a black carded fencer is supposed to salute, theres not much forcing him to since he already received the black card.

but anyway, back to being someone on topic.

does anyone else here kinda like having your opponent yelling alot? i mean, i'm definitely not a GOOD fencer, probably just a decent one. but when im fencing someone high up on the points list, i like to know that i'm giving them a challenge worth yelling over.

[NotIndPk]

I think my point was that he's got competitive experience and results, and as far as we know, you have nothing.

You also basically called Brendan Meyers "scum of the earth".

So yeah, you look like a griping fool with no credibility.

ViewRef takes a position on suggesting that pick one: card or no card and gets caught up in a "you are too new" to say anything and RebelFencer can say whatever because he has credibility....

Really???

By the way D+F+P: I was the one who called bad behavior on the strip "scum-of-the-earth" . YOU attribute it to poor ViewRef and then call him a "griping fool with no credibility"........fascinating. Perhaps you mixed up your responses - please set the record straight.

I also notice that ViewRef's question remains unanswered: does being a long time member and/or "high-level" fencer entitle such members to personally attack other "new" fencers???

....respect your betters, indeed,eh D+F+P?

[HDG]

Ok, this is a bit off topic, but;

in the event that a black card is issued by the referee, is the offending fencer supposed to salute first or just leave?

Yes, but they get to pick whether it is with their weapon or their middle finger.

[NotIndPk]

Yes, but they get to pick whether it is with their weapon or their middle finger.

...something REALLY funny. Laughed out loud, caused quizzical looks at work here........

[Goldgar]

Forgive me if someone already answered this, but IF the director interprets the second yell as a cardable offense, what are their options? If a red card is given, is the previous touch annulled? Are they brought back to their respective en garde lines to repeat the ninth touch, or back to the spot of the annulled touch? Or do the results stand, but the card follow the offending fencer for the rest of the day?

I THINK this was the original intent of the thread...if the red card is unable to reverse the final touch, and doesn't stick with them for the rest of the competition, what can be done? Is it a "message" red card, that basically serves as a warning, but otherwise has no ill effect on the 'offending' fencer?

Yes, this was discussed earlier. The G3 red card for "fencer disturbing order on the strip" doesn't include annulment of the fencer's touch. It could certainly serve as a "message" card. Here's an interesting question, though -- the red card normally includes the award of a touch to the opponent. If the bout were at 5-3, would giving this card then make the final score 5-4? Or does the fact that it occurred after the fifth point was scored by the offender eliminate that penalty touch? If it doesn't, then what about the case describe in the OP, where the score was 5-4 when the offense occurred? Is it now 5V-5D? I'd love to have an authoritative answer to this.

[fleshbroiler]

Yes, but they get to pick whether it is with their weapon or their middle finger.

Ahh, thanks for the clarification.

[RebelFencer]

The name is Joseph Oliverius and I fence for NFA in the TN division. I don't try and remain anonymous. I'm an A, but I'm not calling anyone a crappy fencer or saying I'm better either way. If I was in a foil bout with someone who was number 5 on the points list, it wouldn't have come near that close in my favor. But I have seen a good amount (though not nearly as much as some of the really experience people on the board) of high Div 1 level bouts. I'm not flaming the poster for what he's saying so much as how he's saying it. But the way he's phrasing his argument does make it seem as though he doesn't know much. Maybe I'm wrong.

[tchwojko]

As a reality check, I had the original post's situation happen to me. I was a rookie winning a college bout 4-1. My opponent got an adrenaline rush, started yelling during touches, and basically steamrolled me. When he got the 5th touch with a shout, he got in my face and yelled again. When it was time to shake hands, I held his hand, told him I didn't appreciate it. He quickly apologized, and then apologized again later. Had he not been very contrite, the next teammate of mine that fenced him would have probably gotten a red card for jostling. Most likely something involving a bell guard.

Now, being older and hopefully wiser, I'd just use mocking in-kind behavior (whether I scored a touch or not). Shake hands and scream "NICE BOUT!!!" in his face. If the ref didn't card the first one...

I doubt I would hold a grudge, though. I'd just be wary of bad behavior the next time.

In the end, it was a yell in my face. Extremely annoying, but I'm not going to let it ruin my day. I didn't get hurt, other than my pride for blowing a 4-1 lead. I can understand a ref going either way with the call. If the ref warned the fencer against doing it again, that would be fine with me. The idea is to stop the behavior. If the ref accomplished that, cool. If not, I'll help stop it next time.

[Inquartata]

[QUOTE=gatsby;657892when im fencing someone high up on the points list, i like to know that i'm giving them a challenge worth yelling over.[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily. Some guys yell ALL the time. I once fenced Andre Crompton in pools, he screamed after every touch of his 5-0 win. I was definitely NOT a challenge.

[dadofbag]

Not necessarily. Some guys yell ALL the time. I once fenced Andre Crompton in pools, he screamed after every touch of his 5-0 win. I was definitely NOT a challenge.

Ah yes, but did your opponent take the time to walk up to you after the final touch and (before offering you his hand in acknowledgment of your paltry existence), roar directly into your unmasked face?

Now that's recognition from the gods (lower case) of fencing!

[Gav]

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

I am sorry to have to say that I think it's high time this thread was closed.

In the words of a famous commentator: "What we have here is a failure to communicate".

I can't make my mind up if there is a useful discussion that should be given a separate thread so that it has air to breathe. Please PM if you can help me make that decision.

Or perhaps I should clean the thread out?

Honestly guys I need a but of community input into this one.