Interesting foil connector encountered today...

[Purple Fencer]

Fencer brings a foil to up have checked out. At first glance I thought it was a Tokyo Sport bayonet connector....then DHCJr, noted that it was, in fact....a coax cable connector!!

The cord itself was, by nature, stiff...but it was totally legal!

And yes...I DID ask him if he got the Playboy Channel on it!

[jfarmer]

Coax F-type (what's commonly seen on consumer video gear for broadcast signals) or a BNC connector?

And considering that a BNC will work with just about any type of wire in addition to coax, and you can get sockets to inside the guard that make a solid ground connection...

that wouldn't be a bad idea...

(Goes off to rummage through all the old networking and instrumentation cables...)

[Gav]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Fencer brings a foil to up have checked out. At first glance I thought it was a Tokyo Sport bayonet connector....then DHCJr, noted that it was, in fact....a coax cable connector!!

The cord itself was, by nature, stiff...but it was totally legal!

And yes...I DID ask him if he got the Playboy Channel on it!

Do you mean a BNC connecter? Or the regular "Aerial" one (not sure what the name of the connector is).

I can see why a BNC connector would work well (if a little clunky).

[SJCFU#2]

Wouldn't you know it - I finally get around to throwing out all those old BNC shorts that haven't been used since captuers went away then someone finds a new use for them.

Out of curiousity, did they also solder the wire to the guard socket or did they simply jam it in there and rely on friction (and maybe a crimp) to hold it in place?

[KD5MDK]

Or tape...

[JMcC]

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Fencer brings a foil to up have checked out. At first glance I thought it was a Tokyo Sport bayonet connector....then DHCJr, noted that it was, in fact....a coax cable connector!!

The cord itself was, by nature, stiff...but it was totally legal!

I can't claim this is a case of "great minds think alike," but I've been working on a BNC foil body cord for a while now.

I was frustrated and dissatisfied with both of the most common cord-to-foil connectors: two prong (too delicate and prone to pulling out,) and the bayonet (too complex and too tall.) It was a case of "there's got to be a better solution."

Ideally a better cord-to-foil connector would:
- Be more sturdy than the current equipment
- Hold/remain attached better than the current equipment
- Be constructed from standard, commonly available elements - not proprietary, fencing only parts available ONLY from a few sources

I was familiar with the BNC fitting from computer networking work a number of years ago (it's not used as much now,) and it seemed like the perfect solution:
- sturdy
- smaller than most (all?) of the current foil-to-cord fittings
- simple, but secure locking technique
- available from many sources

I did think that the coax cable I was most familiar with on BNC fittings (and most people have seen on their cable TV) was too thick and stiff for a body cord, but looking into this possible solution, I learned that coax cable is available in a thinner version that is actually more flexible than many existing, conventional body cords; it's RG-58 coax.

I've taken, and had used, an RG-58 coax cable body cord at several NACs (some of the armorers may remember inspecting it,) and it's held up just fine.

I have not yet located an acceptable (to me) foil-side BNC fitting. Those I've acquired easily (RadioShack etc.) have been too tall and/or too exposed where the blade wire would be attached. I'm sure there will be an acceptable one; I just haven't tracked it down yet.

I encourage all those great tinkerers here at Fencing.net to continue this line of BNC/coax body cord development. I'm only a fencing parent pressed into home "armorer" duty to keep my son equipped (and and the costs down as much as is possible!) He'll be heading off to college after this season, so my "tinkering" compulsions will move on to more immediate, close-to-home challenges.
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[brtech]

I recall someone telling me that there was a club (or division) in Alaska that was using BNCs. A BNC is a rugged and generally inexpensive connector. The connection to the foil wire is the hard part. Solder is likely the only thing that's going to work well. You could use a crimp, but I think that is waay too much work and expense when a rewire is needed. The tool alone is over $100.

Look at the BNC-3195 at:
http://www.action-electronics.com/bncconnectors.htm#Bnc

This would need a custom bracket.

[larkmaj]

Doesn't the cable end run the risk of the core wire breaking off?

[brtech]

The center conductor of a coax cable can be stranded wire. RG58 does come in a stranded center conductor.

[neal white]

I would bet that Purple Fencer met Jeff (aka Shawn) Hart -- Shawn showed me his body cord and connector in Richmond -- it never gets loose, is very sturdy and he has never had one go bad. No one can borrow his cords or weapons (and vice versa) Of course he is a tinkerer, and he builds his own brackets also -- this is one time that someone had an idea before Joe Biebel.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by neal white

I would bet that Purple Fencer met Jeff (aka Shawn) Hart -- Shawn showed me his body cord and connector in Richmond -- it never gets loose, is very sturdy and he has never had one go bad. No one can borrow his cords or weapons (and vice versa) Of course he is a tinkerer, and he builds his own brackets also -- this is one time that someone had an idea before Joe Biebel.

You would be correct on who it was!!!

[ysbadadden]

Back in the Olden Days, numbers of epee fencers used coax cable connectors. Then they were told they were illegal because they couldn't be shorted out for test purposes. I always liked those connectors.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by ysbadadden

Back in the Olden Days, numbers of epee fencers used coax cable connectors. Then they were told they were illegal because they couldn't be shorted out for test purposes. I always liked those connectors.

They can be shorted for testing...Don Cinton did it when we looked at hart's cord....it's just not as easy to do as a german 2 pin.

[ysbadadden]

Either is the LP Bayonet connector -- as easy to test as the 2-pin. But refs (directors, then) just decided that it was illegal -- so it sropped off the face of the earth.

[brtech]

It would be pretty hard to short the cord with the bell guard, which is easy with a two pin or any of the bayonets. You could do it with a key, or coin, or any other small piece of metal. The problem, for those of you who don't know what a BNC looks like, is that the center pin doesn't stick out from the surrounding contact. It makes the center pin more rugged, because it's slightly lower than the rest of the connector. It's not very far down, but the connector probably couldn't be manipulated to touch it with just the guard.

[erik_blank]

How can an Epee cord be made from a coax connector? My mental image of a coax connector would include a single connection for the center wire and a connection for the grounding shield. How does the bell get grounded?

[brtech]

Nah, this is a foil or saber cord only.

There are "triax" connectors that would do roughly the same thing for 3 conductors:
http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/C...ax_catalog.pdf

but I think it would be pretty hard and/or expensive to use them for an epee connector. The regular 3 pin connector is pretty rugged, I'm not sure it's worth it to change. Now, having said that, if the cord was a triax, and the socket was a regular BNC for foil/saber and a triax for epee, you would have a 3 weapon cord.

[fatfencer]

I dunno guys. These things are a ***** to take off when you are switching a bad component out in the comfort of your own home. Using them with your OFF hand on the strip after all that adrenaline...not likely. At least, not EASILY.

I'm all for changing the status quo to something that doesn't require spending money. I'm a cheap bastard. BUT, imho...the coax thing doesnt make sense unless its easily removable.

FF

PS: I have seen an easily disconnected connector but my opinion WOULD LIKELY change if there was one.

[brtech]

I think you are confusing a BNC with an F connector. A BNC is like a bayonet, you push it in and twist about 1/2 a turn. An F connector has a thread; you push it on and thread the outer nut over a threaded post in the socket. Most home video systems use F connectors, not BNCs. A BNC is easily to get on and off.

[fatfencer]

Where can I pick up a BNC connector?

Pretty easy to confuse the two. Look almost identical to the untrained I.


FF