I am banging my head against the monitor

[Downtown]

Type of Weapon: Leon Paul FIE Viniti blade / Leon Paul pistol grip of some kind

The Reason I Did This in the First Place: My coach (He is a NCAA coach, but has a club for us lesser mortals as well) modifies his epee (in part) by cutting off some of the pistol grip that butts up against the bell guard. His thumb is therefore sandwiched more closely to the bell guard. This (among other things) helps you “lead with the point”. Sadly, trying to do this to a Leon Paul weapon was not the best idea in the world. Who knew?

What I Did: I hack sawed off the amount of pistol grip I needed. I cut off the part of the tang I needed to as the “screw part “was now to long. I cut the “V” in the grip, but because of the way Leon Paul grips are made, it would not go down far enough to hold my bell guard securely.

After some time using a Dremel tool; drill and chisel to modify the hole in the grip, I lost patience and tried to tighten the “looong cylindrical” nut tightly and force it down. I have now succeeded in stripping the threads (I guess) so I can’t get the damn pistol grip off and I cannot get to the “looong cylindrical” nut to put a pipe wrench on it.

My Plan: Cut off the grip with a hack saw and pray to all manner of fencing gods that I can get the nut off. (Pardon the terminology here, I don’t know what I am talking about and have never done this.) I buy a “die thingy” that makes threads on a screw and run it back down the screw. I buy a non- Leon Paul grip of some kind and hope it will fit.

My Back Up Plan: I bundle up my epee and send it to an armorer that knows what he/she is doing. In the mean time I will post this on Fencing Net so I can be reminded that I am an idiot for forcing the nut. I am sure that will make me feel better.

Things I Would Like to Know While I am Being Belittled:

1.What size “die thingy” do I buy to do this? I remember talking to an armorer about this once and I think it was something like a 1-6-1 or something. Is that even close?
2.Any suggestions on how to get the nut off?
3.Does anyone out there modify there grips in this way and can you offer some suggestions?
4.These are my plans, but I am more than open to better ones.
5.In the event I can get the nut off and re thread the tang, what are the odds that if I buy a non-Leon Paul grip that it will fit once I modified it? I must modify it now as I have shortened the tang.

[Purple Fencer]

Originally Posted by Downtown

[b][u]

After some time using a Dremel tool; drill and chisel to modify the hole in the grip, I lost patience and tried to tighten the “looong cylindrical” nut tightly and force it down. I have now succeeded in stripping the threads (I guess) so I can’t get the damn pistol grip off and I cannot get to the “looong cylindrical” nut to put a pipe wrench on it.

Sounds like you forgot to put a lock washer in and the pommel nut was driven inside the recess where the tang goes instead of against the shelf inside where it's supposed to. Was it an inside or outside nut? if you got it down you SHOULD be able to get it to come out....unless it's and inside and the tang projects too much to the the wrench into it.

My Plan: Cut off the grip with a hack saw and pray to all manner of fencing gods that I can get the nut off. (Pardon the terminology here, I don’t know what I am talking about and have never done this.) I buy a “die thingy” that makes threads on a screw and run it back down the screw. I buy a non- Leon Paul grip of some kind and hope it will fit.

If you cut the grip apart to get it off, getting the pommel off will be no problem. You shouldn't have to have to rethread the tang....[/quote]

My Back Up Plan: I bundle up my epee and send it to an armorer that knows what he/she is doing. In the mean time I will post this on Fencing Net so I can be reminded that I am an idiot for forcing the nut. I am sure that will make me feel better.

I would suggest sending it to an armorer first to see if he or she can save it before cutting the grip apart *raises hand*

1.What size “die thingy” do I buy to do this? I remember talking to an armorer about this once and I think it was something like a 1-6-1 or something. Is that even close?
2.Any suggestions on how to get the nut off?
3.Does anyone out there modify there grips in this way and can you offer some suggestions?
4.These are my plans, but I am more than open to better ones.
5.In the event I can get the nut off and re thread the tang, what are the odds that if I buy a non-Leon Paul grip that it will fit once I modified it? I must modify it now as I have shortened the tang.

1. It's going to be a metric die....6mm x 1mm....most armorers will have that die....I know i do.
2. Without actually seeing it....sent it to an armorer and have one of us deal with it.
3. If the grip was hanging up on the square part of the tang, it would've been easier to grind a little bit of the tang instead of the grip to make it fit all the way down (very common). Grinding to do so is not illegal....grinding to change teh flexibility of the blade is, but that's not what you're doing here.
5. It depends on teh grip...if the tang is too short, the grip may have to be reamed out with an end mill to deepen the recess.....try the other options first.

[bigdawg2121]

Option 2: if you can't find Kathy find me at club next week and I'll look at to see how urgently you need an armorer.


PS: I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm at least as mortal as you are.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

PS: I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm at least as mortal br you are.

Bet you're not interested in trying to prove it.... :)

-B

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by Downtown

What I Did: I hack sawed off the amount of pistol grip I needed. I cut off the part of the tang I needed to as the “screw part “was now to long. I cut the “V” in the grip, but because of the way Leon Paul grips are made, it would not go down far enough to hold my bell guard securely.

When you say it would not go down far enough, did you mean that there was a gap between the end of the grip and the guard or did you mean you could not tighten the grip securely?

If there was an actual gap then it sounds like the square part of the tang was bottoming inside the grip. Grinding the square profile to round should help as PF suggested.

If there was no gap but you can't tighten it securely, then the threads may be too short. Then you will need a 6 mm x 1 mm die to cut more threads. The local hardware stores around here usually carry them. If you can start the die, you can cut further threads even without a die holder. Put the die in a vise and turn the blade into it with large pliers or a wrench.

Most of us call the "looong cylinder thing" a pommel. What you can do to get it off depends on what type it is. If it is screwdriver or inside hex type you may be out of luck.

If it is outside hex type there may be hope. The 8 mm size is neglibly different from 5/16 inch. That same local hardware store probably has a so-called "6 way screwdriver". Double ended flat screwdriver and Phillips bits and a double ended holder which has 1/4 inch nut driver at one end and 5/16 inch at the other end. Use the larger end and then put your pipe wrench on the screwdriver handle. You can get a lot more leverage than with an 8 mm wrench.

If that won't work, remember that you can get a new grip for less than $10. Take your trusty hack saw and cut around the grip near but above the bottom of the pommel. Then you can get your pipe wrench on it.

Don't be afraid to put some light oil or WD40 down in there before you lean on the pipe wrench to get the pommel off. If it is jammed too tight, you might just twist the tang apart and then you are SOL.

[Downtown]

Well thanks folks. This is giving me a little hope that I might save my blade.

Big: No one I know has been able to contact Kathy for a while. (No returned phone calls or e-mails.) Her mother-in-law was near death at Christmas I hear.
I will bring my weapon to club if you think you can help. Thanks.

Purple: There was no washer that I saw. If you do not mind, I will see if I can enlist some local aid next week. Should that fail, I would like to send this to you and have you take a look. In the event this okay with you, I will PM you concerning estimating a cost. Thanks.

[Downtown]

Thanks Bill.

It is a inside hex nut. Up until the last few months, I have always fenced French grip. I know what a pommel is in that regard, but did not think this was the correct terminology for something that fits inside a pistol grip.

Oil for the pommel is a good suggestion. I will do so if I ever get down to it.

[bigdawg2121]

I'll definitely take a look at it for you on Tuesday. If all else fails you can send it to Atlanta with us and we'll get it taken care of at the NAC next weekend.

[Inquartata]

They make long-nosed vise grip pliers, with which you might be able to grip the cylinder even if there's not enough protruding to get a wrench on securely. They aren't truly "needle-nosed" ( though I ground a set down into that for mail-making once ), but they are close. Put some oil down there like Bill said, too.

Bill, I suspect that once he cut off the end of the tang there wasn't enough threading left for the pommel to go all the way down, so he tried to cut some more with a dremel before giving up and just screwing it down. Crudely cut threading could easily jam a precision-made pommel.

[yeoldearmourer]

Send it to me and you have it back with 24 hr of me recevied it. I have a lath that I make some of my tools for things I cannot buy

[KD5MDK]

I think the Atlanta NAC is soon enough to be worth the wait compaired to cross-country shipping for such a long item.

[yeoldearmourer]

It might be but I do have tools that I have made for this problem and it take me about 5 min to get it out.