Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: I am banging my head against the monitor

  1. #1
    Senior Member Downtown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    High Point NC
    Posts
    317
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews

    I am banging my head against the monitor

    Type of Weapon: Leon Paul FIE Viniti blade / Leon Paul pistol grip of some kind

    The Reason I Did This in the First Place: My coach (He is a NCAA coach, but has a club for us lesser mortals as well) modifies his epee (in part) by cutting off some of the pistol grip that butts up against the bell guard. His thumb is therefore sandwiched more closely to the bell guard. This (among other things) helps you “lead with the point”. Sadly, trying to do this to a Leon Paul weapon was not the best idea in the world. Who knew?

    What I Did: I hack sawed off the amount of pistol grip I needed. I cut off the part of the tang I needed to as the “screw part “was now to long. I cut the “V” in the grip, but because of the way Leon Paul grips are made, it would not go down far enough to hold my bell guard securely.

    After some time using a Dremel tool; drill and chisel to modify the hole in the grip, I lost patience and tried to tighten the “looong cylindrical” nut tightly and force it down. I have now succeeded in stripping the threads (I guess) so I can’t get the damn pistol grip off and I cannot get to the “looong cylindrical” nut to put a pipe wrench on it.

    My Plan: Cut off the grip with a hack saw and pray to all manner of fencing gods that I can get the nut off. (Pardon the terminology here, I don’t know what I am talking about and have never done this.) I buy a “die thingy” that makes threads on a screw and run it back down the screw. I buy a non- Leon Paul grip of some kind and hope it will fit.

    My Back Up Plan: I bundle up my epee and send it to an armorer that knows what he/she is doing. In the mean time I will post this on Fencing Net so I can be reminded that I am an idiot for forcing the nut. I am sure that will make me feel better.

    Things I Would Like to Know While I am Being Belittled:

    1.What size “die thingy” do I buy to do this? I remember talking to an armorer about this once and I think it was something like a 1-6-1 or something. Is that even close?
    2.Any suggestions on how to get the nut off?
    3.Does anyone out there modify there grips in this way and can you offer some suggestions?
    4.These are my plans, but I am more than open to better ones.
    5.In the event I can get the nut off and re thread the tang, what are the odds that if I buy a non-Leon Paul grip that it will fit once I modified it? I must modify it now as I have shortened the tang.
    Anything worth doing is worth doing to obsession.

    http://grayepee.blogspot.com/

  2. #2
    Posting Hound Purple Fencer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Panorama City, ca USA
    Posts
    12,389
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post
    [B][U]

    After some time using a Dremel tool; drill and chisel to modify the hole in the grip, I lost patience and tried to tighten the “looong cylindrical” nut tightly and force it down. I have now succeeded in stripping the threads (I guess) so I can’t get the damn pistol grip off and I cannot get to the “looong cylindrical” nut to put a pipe wrench on it.
    Sounds like you forgot to put a lock washer in and the pommel nut was driven inside the recess where the tang goes instead of against the shelf inside where it's supposed to. Was it an inside or outside nut? if you got it down you SHOULD be able to get it to come out....unless it's and inside and the tang projects too much to the the wrench into it.

    My Plan: Cut off the grip with a hack saw and pray to all manner of fencing gods that I can get the nut off. (Pardon the terminology here, I don’t know what I am talking about and have never done this.) I buy a “die thingy” that makes threads on a screw and run it back down the screw. I buy a non- Leon Paul grip of some kind and hope it will fit.
    If you cut the grip apart to get it off, getting the pommel off will be no problem. You shouldn't have to have to rethread the tang....[/quote]

    My Back Up Plan: I bundle up my epee and send it to an armorer that knows what he/she is doing. In the mean time I will post this on Fencing Net so I can be reminded that I am an idiot for forcing the nut. I am sure that will make me feel better.
    I would suggest sending it to an armorer first to see if he or she can save it before cutting the grip apart *raises hand*


    1.What size “die thingy” do I buy to do this? I remember talking to an armorer about this once and I think it was something like a 1-6-1 or something. Is that even close?
    2.Any suggestions on how to get the nut off?
    3.Does anyone out there modify there grips in this way and can you offer some suggestions?
    4.These are my plans, but I am more than open to better ones.
    5.In the event I can get the nut off and re thread the tang, what are the odds that if I buy a non-Leon Paul grip that it will fit once I modified it? I must modify it now as I have shortened the tang.
    1. It's going to be a metric die....6mm x 1mm....most armorers will have that die....I know i do.
    2. Without actually seeing it....sent it to an armorer and have one of us deal with it.
    3. If the grip was hanging up on the square part of the tang, it would've been easier to grind a little bit of the tang instead of the grip to make it fit all the way down (very common). Grinding to do so is not illegal....grinding to change teh flexibility of the blade is, but that's not what you're doing here.
    5. It depends on teh grip...if the tang is too short, the grip may have to be reamed out with an end mill to deepen the recess.....try the other options first.
    Need fencing equipment? See me at H.O.M. Fencing Supply

    Going to your first tournament? Read "Choose yer weapon, Laddie (or: Dude, where's my foil?)"

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    I have no home
    Posts
    3,827
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Option 2: if you can't find Kathy find me at club next week and I'll look at to see how urgently you need an armorer.


    PS: I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm at least as mortal as you are.
    Last edited by bigdawg2121; 01-12-2008 at 03:41 PM.
    I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
    "Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West

  4. #4
    Posting Hound oiuyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Pennsauken, NJ
    Posts
    12,215
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Quote Originally Posted by bigdawg2121 View Post
    PS: I'm not sure about anyone else but I'm at least as mortal br you are.
    Bet you're not interested in trying to prove it.... :)

    -B
    "Oh but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

  5. #5
    Senior Member fencerbill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    near Boston
    Posts
    3,791
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Quote Originally Posted by Downtown View Post

    What I Did: I hack sawed off the amount of pistol grip I needed. I cut off the part of the tang I needed to as the “screw part “was now to long. I cut the “V” in the grip, but because of the way Leon Paul grips are made, it would not go down far enough to hold my bell guard securely.
    When you say it would not go down far enough, did you mean that there was a gap between the end of the grip and the guard or did you mean you could not tighten the grip securely?

    If there was an actual gap then it sounds like the square part of the tang was bottoming inside the grip. Grinding the square profile to round should help as PF suggested.

    If there was no gap but you can't tighten it securely, then the threads may be too short. Then you will need a 6 mm x 1 mm die to cut more threads. The local hardware stores around here usually carry them. If you can start the die, you can cut further threads even without a die holder. Put the die in a vise and turn the blade into it with large pliers or a wrench.

    Most of us call the "looong cylinder thing" a pommel. What you can do to get it off depends on what type it is. If it is screwdriver or inside hex type you may be out of luck.

    If it is outside hex type there may be hope. The 8 mm size is neglibly different from 5/16 inch. That same local hardware store probably has a so-called "6 way screwdriver". Double ended flat screwdriver and Phillips bits and a double ended holder which has 1/4 inch nut driver at one end and 5/16 inch at the other end. Use the larger end and then put your pipe wrench on the screwdriver handle. You can get a lot more leverage than with an 8 mm wrench.

    If that won't work, remember that you can get a new grip for less than $10. Take your trusty hack saw and cut around the grip near but above the bottom of the pommel. Then you can get your pipe wrench on it.

    Don't be afraid to put some light oil or WD40 down in there before you lean on the pipe wrench to get the pommel off. If it is jammed too tight, you might just twist the tang apart and then you are SOL.
    Whoopee! My avatar is back.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Downtown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    High Point NC
    Posts
    317
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Well thanks folks. This is giving me a little hope that I might save my blade.

    Big: No one I know has been able to contact Kathy for a while. (No returned phone calls or e-mails.) Her mother-in-law was near death at Christmas I hear.
    I will bring my weapon to club if you think you can help. Thanks.

    Purple: There was no washer that I saw. If you do not mind, I will see if I can enlist some local aid next week. Should that fail, I would like to send this to you and have you take a look. In the event this okay with you, I will PM you concerning estimating a cost. Thanks.
    Anything worth doing is worth doing to obsession.

    http://grayepee.blogspot.com/

  7. #7
    Senior Member Downtown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    High Point NC
    Posts
    317
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Thanks Bill.

    It is a inside hex nut. Up until the last few months, I have always fenced French grip. I know what a pommel is in that regard, but did not think this was the correct terminology for something that fits inside a pistol grip.

    Oil for the pommel is a good suggestion. I will do so if I ever get down to it.
    Anything worth doing is worth doing to obsession.

    http://grayepee.blogspot.com/

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    I have no home
    Posts
    3,827
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    I'll definitely take a look at it for you on Tuesday. If all else fails you can send it to Atlanta with us and we'll get it taken care of at the NAC next weekend.
    I now dangle to the left....my tassle. Get your minds out of the gutter.
    "Martin was not an optimist; he was a prisoner of hope." Optimism is about assuming there's evidence that justifies your outlook while hope is about creating the evidence and procuring your own happiness or vision of the world. - Professor West

  9. #9
    Curmudgeon Emeritus Inquartata's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Somewhere in your nightmares!
    Posts
    36,594
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    They make long-nosed vise grip pliers, with which you might be able to grip the cylinder even if there's not enough protruding to get a wrench on securely. They aren't truly "needle-nosed" ( though I ground a set down into that for mail-making once ), but they are close. Put some oil down there like Bill said, too.

    Bill, I suspect that once he cut off the end of the tang there wasn't enough threading left for the pommel to go all the way down, so he tried to cut some more with a dremel before giving up and just screwing it down. Crudely cut threading could easily jam a precision-made pommel.
    Use the Shift key, people! Keyboard manufacturers everywhere are ineffably saddened when you ignore what they made just for you!

  10. #10
    Senior Member yeoldearmourer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Mountain Home ID
    Posts
    890
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    Send it to me and you have it back with 24 hr of me recevied it. I have a lath that I make some of my tools for things I cannot buy
    Last edited by yeoldearmourer; 01-12-2008 at 07:08 PM. Reason: left something out
    Tim Loomis
    Ye Olde Armourer MASTER ARMOURER
    DO YOU TRUST YOUR ARMOURER
    GOD Loves His Warriors
    www.yeoldearmourer.com

  11. #11
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    12,727
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    I think the Atlanta NAC is soon enough to be worth the wait compaired to cross-country shipping for such a long item.

  12. #12
    Senior Member yeoldearmourer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Mountain Home ID
    Posts
    890
    Reviews
    Read 0 Reviews
    It might be but I do have tools that I have made for this problem and it take me about 5 min to get it out.
    Tim Loomis
    Ye Olde Armourer MASTER ARMOURER
    DO YOU TRUST YOUR ARMOURER
    GOD Loves His Warriors
    www.yeoldearmourer.com

Similar Threads

  1. Scoring machine using an LCD monitor
    By Joe biebel in forum Armory - Q&A
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 12-05-2007, 01:50 PM
  2. Behind the head
    By Orestes in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 03-24-2006, 07:58 AM
  3. Use your head
    By drippingwet in forum Water Cooler
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-16-2004, 12:12 AM
  4. Brewing in my head....
    By D+F+P=Hadouken! in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 11-20-2004, 02:13 AM
  5. head shots?
    By frenzl in forum Fencing Discussion
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-04-2004, 09:03 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26