"You've just got it all."

[Swordsman]

[quote]Originally posted by Iwant2bafencer:
<strong>aww swordsman you wanna share the wealth? I'm not saying I'm depressed or anything, but you've just got it all. </strong><hr></blockquote>


Alright, I know this doesn't really fit in Fantasy Land. But this is where it got started, so I'd like to put my reply here, too.


&lt;SOAPBOX&gt;
Share the wealth? I only wish I could do more. Actually, I can do more, and should. I know I'm not very good about that kind of thing.

Yeah, I do pretty much have it all. I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging or trying to make anybody else feel worse, but it's a fact as far as I can tell. The reason I want to bring it up again is to make this point:

It has nothing to do with me. I'd say it's pure dumb luck, except that it's not that, either. I don't believe in luck. I believe in blessings. And I know I've been very blessed. No way I deserve any of it, and neither do I have any idea why I got any of it. But I have been very blessed, and I thank Him for it every time I think to. Unfortunately, this isn't nearly as often as it should be.

Here's my actual point, I guess: Any of you who are envious of what I have, don't look at me. Look to God, and see what it really is: Evidence of a generous, loving, and benevolent God.
&lt;/SOAPBOX&gt;

If I've offended anybody with my opinions on religion, I'm sorry, but there's freedom of speech. If I've offended anybody by sounding like I'm bragging, or made anybody envious, I'm also sorry. That was not my intention at all.

Flame away!

[Moonitic]

I stand right beside you, buddy. Anyone who is gonna flame you will have to flame me too. And I'm rather burn proof, thank you very much!

[arcon]

"Believe it or not", Arcon also believes in God.

Really.......cause im constantly asking for forgiveness......Nooooooooo im not Catholic.

arcon

[Iwant2bafencer]

I agree swords, and I'm with ya to.

----------------
Carpe Diem

[DamedEscrime]

Don't have it all. Don't want it all. Too much responsibility.

But I do believe in God.

[135711]

read woody gutherie or arlo gutherie

[ 05-22-2002: Message edited by: 135711 ]</p>

[Fencing Angel]

I believe I am called to stand in the company of friends..

"A coard of three strands is not easily broken."

[Swordsman]

Fencing Angel, I thank you for your support!

Mango - read who?

[Willow]

Whoo-hoo! People who aren't afraid to believe in God! Gotta love it. I'm happy to stand with you all.

[Zelda]

I may have problems with organised religion but I do have a relationship with Christ.
I'll join the stand.

[Moonitic]

lol...trust me, Zelda, nothing "organized" about it...I was a youth group leader for a year. That word didn't exist in our vocabulary!

But I do know what you're talking about.

[Swordsman]

Wow...this is all really cool to be reading. Zelda, I know exactly what you mean. And isn't a personal relationship exactly what He's looking for? The rest is just extra!

[Kehra Dehvokan]

*bows to the Swordsman*

Thank you for posting that... !

And you already know what I think of such things! Heh..

God bless you, Sir. God is good, and I am pleased to see you pointing not to yourself, but to Him as the source of your blessings in life.

*bows again and disappears*

[Iwant2bafencer]

I must agree with Kerha full heartedly. Most people point to themselves for their wealth or good fortune, but you pointed to god as to I.

-------------------
Carpe Diem
Crush the Evil Thing

[lochinvar]

Hmm, let’s see... would that be the God who gave my first wife the breast cancer that killed her at age thirty-five?

Or perhaps it’s the God who watched my house burn to the ground in ’89.

Or maybe it’s the one who made my youngest son a suicidal manic-depressive.

Or maybe it’s the one who gave my father a stroke in ’74 that was just enough to paralyze him and rob him of half his mind, but not enough to kill him for another twenty years.

Or maybe it’s the one who sadistically ordered Abraham to kill his only son just to see what he would do.
Or maybe it’s the one who sent a bear to kill and devour some small children that laughed at Isaiah.
Or maybe it’s the one who hardened Pharaoh’s heart against letting the Hebrews leave Egypt and then punished him for his stubbornness by sending the Angel of Death to slay the firstborn of every Egyptian household.

Would that be the “generous, loving, and benevolent God” you’re talking about? If so, He seems to have an odd way of expressing His loving benevolence.

But then, maybe He’s only generous, loving, and benevolent to certain people and not to others. Maybe He just takes a ‘shine’ to some folks, and others just piss Him off. Certainly if we were made in His “image and likeness” that might have been one of the traits that we inherited, since we exhibit that behavior in abundance.

And at least I’m not living in Beirut or Sarajevo or Kabul or Belfast or Soweto or in some forgotten town in the hills of Kentucky where people die from liver failure because of TCE poisoning in the wells and children are born six months premature with two heads because their mothers eat fish loaded with cadmium and mercury. So maybe He is benevolent, otherwise we would all be neck-deep in the s**t instead of just 60% of us being there.

In any case, far be it from me to rain on your parade--or holy procession. By all means please express whatever thanks you wish to whomever you wish to express them.

It’s a free country.

[Blade]

I have many debates with a young Christian friend of mine about God, etc.

I'm sort of with Zelda on this one.

Loch, has all those events made you a weaker or stronger person for today?
And yes I do see where you're coming from.

I don't know about this being a free country cos I'm in a different one to you Lochinvar but I can say hooray for free speech on this part of the internet and World Wide Web.

[Moonitic]

Sorry you feel that God caused all this suffering.

I was raped by my babysitter. My father beat my mother, then later molested my step sister & went to prison...the year I graduated high school. He has sinced died of cancer. We barely had time to reconcile. My brother (a former drunk & drug abuser) was robbed in front of our house. That same person came back, found out the locks had been changed & tried to break in. I was 12 years old at the time. I'll always remember the one gloved hand coming through the screen window in the kitchen, and my mother screaming, with my step father's gun in her hand. I could go on, but why bother? The past is past. NOW is what counts. And NOW, I'm alive, not on drugs, not a complete mental case...I have two beautiful children, a home, friends, talent...Others weren't so "lucky." But it's not luck. It's a choice on how to deal with the pain in our lives. You either fight, or you quit. I'm not a quitter.

We don't always know why things happen, or why there is suffering in the world. God never promised us a perfect place on earth. But he did say there was something better for those who trust him. And that's what I do. I trust him. A pastor once gave this illustration: Life is a tapestry. God looks above, & sees the beautiful, finished product. We only see from below, & can only see the knots & confusion.

By the way, Jesus made it very clear: LOVE is the way.

[lochinvar]

Moon,

Swordsman felt compelled to make a statement.
Others followed suit.
So did I.

Swordsman believes that a benevolent and personal God watches over him and is responsible for his good fortune. I believe that all is random chance and God has nothing to do with it.

Positions have been stated, stances delineated, beliefs expressed and described. Everybody knows where everybody stands. My experience is that further debate beyond this point is futile. No one's mind will be changed by what is said or not said here.

I respect Swordsman's--and your--right to believe as he and you do. My expectation is that you will respect my right to hold a different or even antithetical point of view.

Let's just leave it there, shall we? We have stories to write.

[Moonitic]

Let me get this straight: It's okay for someone's response to be a nice bashing of Someone that some of us love very much, but it's not okay for a mature reply? Nice to know just what the word "respect" really means. And here I thought it would be a mutual thing...go fig.

I'd like to know where in my response (or anyone else's) the words "I don't respect your right to express how you feel" were ever stated. It seems, in stating this, that you don't actually respect our right to our belief. Why is it okay for someone to say, "I don't believe in God & think that if he did exist, he'd be a jerk," but it's NOT okay for someone who believes in God to say, without getting bothered, that they do.

Yes, we have stories to write. Mine are on paper with a pen. And now that I know that it's "okay for some, but not for all," I'll stick to pen & paper. Screw this. So much for "respect." HA!

[Moonitic]

First of all, I want to apologize for the above. I was going to delete it & start over, but I really feel that it needs to stand.

Things like this make me terribly sad & angry. If we were talking about Shinto, Wicca or Hinduism, it wouldn't be the case. Why does the Christian God threaten people so?

Yes, I said threaten. We have "freedom" of religion. Fine. We also have the "freedom" to state our beliefs. Or do we? I really don't understand why this conversation had to happen. Loch, I respect YOU, but I don't respect how you reacted. Fine. You don't believe in God. That's your choice, your business & you're welcome to it. But why make nasty comments about it? Why not just leave it alone? Then, why say in some way that we shouldn't respond when you make a statement? I don't understand that. If our/my beliefs are truly respected, then you wouldn't have felt the need to make a dig. But the truth is, it's not really respect. I just wish that people would call an orange an orange, instead or trying to disguise it as a banana.

I'm not trying to say, "Don't have a conversation." I'm trying to say to be FAIR in that conversation. If you want to make a snide comment, fine. But be prepared for a rebuttal. It can be kept mature. Sorry my last post wasn't. But, as I said, this makes me VERY angry to see. It just seems okay for some to run their mouths, but the moment someone wants to profess how they feel about God, all bets are off. Sadly, I'm not imagining it. If we're going to have freedom, it should encompass everyone, not just those we agree with.

But, my statement on leaving still stands. I don't have the time or energy to put into this anymore. Kill Lady Moon, make her go home to Schoolcraftia, or to a far off kingdom. I'm done. I don't know if I'll change my mind. Life will decide that.