This is big, and just the beginning

[Joe biebel]

I put this in the Fencing Discussion section because it needs to be seen by more people. This is in regards to a software scoring machine thread that appears in the armory section. The thing is, this will be huge and is probably just the beginning of PC fencing systems. This (http://www.swashbucklersfencing.com/VSM.htm) is a link that leads to JS Hart's "Virtual Scoring Machine" website. Prepare to be amazed.

[leftyboy]

ooooOOOOOooooooh! Me want!


What is the instant replay thing though? Just replays the input I guess?

[Fencergrl]

Thank-you for posting this. I am soooo grateful my hubby knows how to do electronics...

[Don Badowski]

This is great, except for one little thing. Laptops are notorious for breaking down if you drop them. And what does it cost to get it fixed? I think I'd rather stick with the Eigertek. You can kick that thing across the floor and it still keeps ticking.

[KD5MDK]

Sounds like a job for old Toughbooks.

[rory]

Nice.
On the assumption that the manufacturers don't bribe Roch / the SEMI commission and have it banned, it's very cool.

Given it runs over the USB interface, I bet you could use a PC with multiple video cards, run more than one copy of the software, and thus run N "virtual boxes" from one host PC.

There'd probably be some minor code tweaks to enable multiple USB inputs / multiple display outputs, but I don't see why it wouldn't work - if you could scale it far enough (how's the resource utilisation?) you might be able to run a whole tournament off a small number of PCs.

Worth thinking about.

[Joe biebel]

While, as Don Badowski posed, a laptop may be a little delicate, my own use will be wall mounted PC's in a permanent salle arrangement. If a laptop were to be set up at training, or for a tournament, and it were my laptop, I would have to be convinced it was safe. We've all seen scoring machines get launched, smashed, beat on, etc.

I currently have 3 "older" computers that I am replacing with newer stuff. I intend to "wipe" them, reinstall Windows XP and the VSM software. I expect to need to get several displays (I am lucky that a I can salvage 19" CRTs from a company in my building) build the requisite interface boxes, buy the gamepads, and software.

Even if I have to buy or build the fourth computer, I will easily have an excellent system, for four strips, at under $1,000.00! My initial estimate is $750.00, but I'm probably missing a few things. If you look at the screen shots, and read the manual, it has many of the functions and features of a Favero full-arm, and even a few extras and advantages. It may not be perfect yet, I don't know, but I think it is the future.

The feedback I've gotten from a highly skilled friend that has fenced and trained with this system for some time, is that it works great.

While the system is not AFAIK a tested or sanctioned or approved system, I do not see the necessity, unless one was trying to run an FIE tournament. I don't doubt, based on my experience with a variety of machines with their quirks and differences, that a computer based system, would be at least as accurate and perhaps much more so. Since every scoring machine that uses this system will be different, it really relies on the software and the interface, and to at least a small extent, the quirks of each computer. The reason I am wiping the computers I use is that where thay are to be mounted, they will be useless for other tasks anyway. The advantage I can see to that, is that nothing else (program-wise) will be running in the background that could perhaps affect accuracy.

[nyacfencing]

While this sounds great in concept, you do understand that 99.9% of the people in the US don't have engineering degrees and aren't going to be able to construct the adapter on their own.

If anybody out there wants to become the VSM Adaptor vendor, now is the time!!! I might even be your first customer.

[Fencergrl]

This might be something that one of the businesses my husband and I run might be willing to take on, if there's a demand. I'll mention it in the next few days.

In the meantime.... PM me if anyone is interested. Having a market, for a product usually piques his interest.

[EdGardner]

Cool. I had kinda stopped following it when there was a long discussion about Windows Interrupts, and my brain started to melt.

Neat to see the problems have been worked out

[jmos58]

Wow, this is pretty cool. Will the computer start judging the touches now? lol jk

[nyacfencing]

Wow, this is pretty cool. Will the computer start judging the touches now? lol jk

Absolutely! You can even program for bias.

On the national level, the program will automatically download the point standing and/or classification of each fencer. Anybody on the point list are assumed to automatically win any touches that land within half a second.

On the international level, the program will analyze the country of each fencer, and bias relative to the below chart:

1. When one fencer is from either France or Russia and the scoring machine is from either France or Russia, that fencer automatically wins via the French Russian Auto-Collusion setting.
2. The European Union
3. Countries in the Non-Aligned Movement
4. All other countries
5. The United States

[rudd]

This is great, except for one little thing. Laptops are notorious for breaking down if you drop them. And what does it cost to get it fixed? I think I'd rather stick with the Eigertek. You can kick that thing across the floor and it still keeps ticking.

That when you use a Tough Book Fully Rugged.

[jjefferies]

While the system is not AFAIK a tested or sanctioned or approved system, I do not see the necessity, unless one was trying to run an FIE tournament. I don't doubt, based on my experience with a variety of machines with their quirks and differences, that a computer based system, would be at least as accurate and perhaps much more so. Since every scoring machine that uses this system will be different, it really relies on the software and the interface, and to at least a small extent, the quirks of each computer. The reason I am wiping the computers I use is that where thay are to be mounted, they will be useless for other tasks anyway. The advantage I can see to that, is that nothing else (program-wise) will be running in the background that could perhaps affect accuracy.

Not to dis this solution but I and enough others will have sufficient doubts about a multi-tasking OS being able to give accurate enough timing at the milli-second level - which means it has to be sampling at the sub-milli-second range - to offer reservations about using it for sanctioned events. For around the club play you can use whatever you want including egg-timers and sand clocks. But before offering this in a sanctioned event I believe you need to test the various implementations with an analyzer and not rely solely on analysis.

[veeco]

Yep. What you want, is a self contained solution that can fit on a CD-ROM, or a floppy. Boot that in, and have the realtime capabilities necessary to provide accurate timing, through software that written specifically for fencing in mind.

[cbcarey]

Would be great to get this running on linux. There is a trend toward cheap laptops running linux (no ms tax) that would more than likely be great for this purpose. Anyone gutsy enough to take on the project in general is more than capable of dealing with linux.

[Joe biebel]

Would be great to get this running on linux. There is a trend toward cheap laptops running linux (no ms tax) that would more than likely be great for this purpose. Anyone gutsy enough to take on the project in general is more than capable of dealing with linux.

Yah! If this could be done without without the Windows tax, ($90-95) a new computer can be built for around $250.00 that would be way more than enough to run as a scoring machine. Add a 19" LCD monitor for $160.00 and let's say $90.00 for the interface and software and your looking at around $500.00 for a wall mountable system for clubs, that potentially has a better display and more features than a Favero Full-Arm.